Advice on a cheap home CCTV system

Advice on a cheap home CCTV system

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Subject Author Date
Advice on a cheap home CCTV system Simon Finnigan 10-04-2005
Posted by Simon Finnigan on October 4, 2005, 7:36 pm
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Maybe OT, maybe not - not entirely sure :-)

Anyway, for various reasons I'd like to install a CCTV system in my home.
Any images taken would be limited to being on my own property, and anotice
would be placed at the enterance to the property explaining the situation to
cover myself under the DPA - lets leave the legal issues to the uk.legal
thread I'll be starting up :-)

My ideal system would allow me to add as many cameras as I want, and view
them remotely over the net. Sending the images to remote storage (FTP
server, email account or similar) would be almost essential. Realistically
I don`t expect to get a system that will run 100 cameras for my budget, but
I've seen something that I think might help. It is a camera server that
allows me to connect 4 cameras, and an audio feed. It can be bought for
under £80 here

http://www.digidave.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=105&osCsid=92625a4e51e38b2ef685a9a4b79cfb97

Now if I get this and buy 4 normal CCTV cameras (a cheap source for these
would be greatly appreciated) I'd have a system that would let me have 4
cameras, sited where I want them (within cabling restraints), viewable over
the internet without the need to leave a PC running 24/7.

I could get an entire system up and running for under £200 without shopping
round for cheap cameras - what do people think? I'm posting this to a few
different groups, and hopefully between them I'll catch enough people who
understand what I'm rambling on about to help me :-) The main questions I
have are:

(1) Do people think this is a reasonable system? I could get say 2
independant IP Cams for this much money, but this system would give me twice
as many cameras
(2) Does anyone have a decent source for CCTv cameras? Black and white is
fine (although colour would be nice). Ideally at least a couple of the
cameras would have decent dark-vision (a limit of 10m would be more than
enough) - cameras that include their own IR lights/LED's and ideallt
waterproof housings would be ideal
(3) Anyone able to suggest a better system? 4 cameras would be a bit
limiting (although I know I could add another server to this idea, that
makes it unweildy). The alternative I can see if normal USB webcams and
software on a PC to run them and provide the same service. This would
probably be a bit cheaper (depending on the cost of the software - anyone
got any suggestions for this), but would require a PC being on 24/7, adding
to the running costs.

Thanks everyone for any help you can give me! I am in the UK incidentally.

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Posted by Dave P on October 4, 2005, 6:55 pm
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> Maybe OT, maybe not - not entirely sure :-)
>
> Anyway, for various reasons I'd like to install a CCTV system in my home.
> Any images taken would be limited to being on my own property, and anotice
> would be placed at the enterance to the property explaining the situation
> to cover myself under the DPA - lets leave the legal issues to the
> uk.legal thread I'll be starting up :-)
>
> My ideal system would allow me to add as many cameras as I want, and view
> them remotely over the net. Sending the images to remote storage (FTP
> server, email account or similar) would be almost essential.
> Realistically I don`t expect to get a system that will run 100 cameras for
> my budget, but I've seen something that I think might help. It is a camera
> server that allows me to connect 4 cameras, and an audio feed. It can be
> bought for under £80 here
>
>
http://www.digidave.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=105&osCsid=92625a4e51e38b2ef685a9a4b79cfb97
>
> Now if I get this and buy 4 normal CCTV cameras (a cheap source for these
> would be greatly appreciated) I'd have a system that would let me have 4
> cameras, sited where I want them (within cabling restraints), viewable
> over the internet without the need to leave a PC running 24/7.
>
> I could get an entire system up and running for under £200 without
> shopping round for cheap cameras - what do people think? I'm posting this
> to a few different groups, and hopefully between them I'll catch enough
> people who understand what I'm rambling on about to help me :-) The main
> questions I have are:
>
> (1) Do people think this is a reasonable system? I could get say 2
> independant IP Cams for this much money, but this system would give me
> twice as many cameras
> (2) Does anyone have a decent source for CCTv cameras? Black and white is
> fine (although colour would be nice). Ideally at least a couple of the
> cameras would have decent dark-vision (a limit of 10m would be more than
> enough) - cameras that include their own IR lights/LED's and ideallt
> waterproof housings would be ideal
> (3) Anyone able to suggest a better system? 4 cameras would be a bit
> limiting (although I know I could add another server to this idea, that
> makes it unweildy). The alternative I can see if normal USB webcams and
> software on a PC to run them and provide the same service. This would
> probably be a bit cheaper (depending on the cost of the software - anyone
> got any suggestions for this), but would require a PC being on 24/7,
> adding to the running costs.
>
> Thanks everyone for any help you can give me! I am in the UK
> incidentally.
>
> --
> What am I selling on ebay right now?
> http://tinyurl.com/38yjc
> Earn money reading emails!
> http://tinyurl.com/2pcgm
> One month FREE spam and fraud protection at
> http://www.cloudmark.com/safetybarsig/?rc=kmj4hl
>
you don't need to register a home CCTV system under data protection, just
don't point it into windows.

www.ezcctv.co.uk are a good source for reasonably priced cameras.

I haven't used your video server, if it does what it says on the tin it will
be OK.

Regards

Dave





Posted by Simon Finnigan on October 4, 2005, 10:02 pm
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> you don't need to register a home CCTV system under data protection, just
> don't point it into windows.
>
> www.ezcctv.co.uk are a good source for reasonably priced cameras.
>
> I haven't used your video server, if it does what it says on the tin it
> will
> be OK.
>
> Regards


I've found one of the servers online (a demo from the company) which seems
to update the images every couple of seconds. having said that, the
connection has got a 300-400ms ping, which strikes me as very high (I think
it's a far east company). I'd love to play about with one based more
locally, but the worst case scenario is that the images will be refreshed at
a rate of one every 2 seconds - still good enough for what I want.

Been looking at the software on that ezcctv, looks quite good.

--
What am I selling on ebay right now?
http://tinyurl.com/38yjc
Earn money reading emails!
http://tinyurl.com/2pcgm
One month FREE spam and fraud protection at
http://www.cloudmark.com/safetybarsig/?rc=kmj4hl




Posted by George Woodbine on October 4, 2005, 10:52 pm
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Simon Finnigan wrote:
> Maybe OT, maybe not - not entirely sure :-)
>
> Anyway, for various reasons I'd like to install a CCTV system in my home.
> Any images taken would be limited to being on my own property, and anotice
> would be placed at the enterance to the property explaining the situation to
> cover myself under the DPA - lets leave the legal issues to the uk.legal
> thread I'll be starting up :-)

This isn't an issue so long as you're careful where you point them. If
it's at your own property, it isn't a problem.

> My ideal system would allow me to add as many cameras as I want, and view
> them remotely over the net. Sending the images to remote storage (FTP
> server, email account or similar) would be almost essential. Realistically
> I don`t expect to get a system that will run 100 cameras for my budget, but
> I've seen something that I think might help. It is a camera server that
> allows me to connect 4 cameras, and an audio feed. It can be bought for
> under £80 here
>
>
http://www.digidave.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=105&osCsid=92625a4e51e38b2ef685a9a4b79cfb97

If you're interested, you can see a live demo of this video server here:

http://www.aviosys.com/products.htm

Username & Password: guest

This demo has an annoying habit of keep requesting your username and
password. I didn't have this issue with mine, I don't know if they've
configured it in some cack-handed way. While there's some good
functionality there, none of this is present in non-IE browsers. This
may or may not be an issue for you. I had one of these for a while, and
it worked reasonably well.

> Now if I get this and buy 4 normal CCTV cameras (a cheap source for these
> would be greatly appreciated) I'd have a system that would let me have 4
> cameras, sited where I want them (within cabling restraints), viewable over
> the internet without the need to leave a PC running 24/7.

The 9100A would be fine for this, but you'd be lucky doing recording
with it too. The motion detection wasn't too good on the one I had (It
would constantly trigger, even when the sensitivity was changed, and
this was with version 2.37 firmware). The 9100A just isn't meant for
unattending recording. If you want decent recording, I'd go with
setting up a proper video server with a 4-port camera PCI card in the
back. These are usually expandable to 16 ports if you add more cameras.

> I could get an entire system up and running for under £200 without shopping
> round for cheap cameras - what do people think? I'm posting this to a few
> different groups, and hopefully between them I'll catch enough people who
> understand what I'm rambling on about to help me :-) The main questions I
> have are:
>
> (1) Do people think this is a reasonable system? I could get say 2
> independant IP Cams for this much money, but this system would give me twice
> as many cameras
> (2) Does anyone have a decent source for CCTv cameras? Black and white is
> fine (although colour would be nice). Ideally at least a couple of the
> cameras would have decent dark-vision (a limit of 10m would be more than
> enough) - cameras that include their own IR lights/LED's and ideallt
> waterproof housings would be ideal

For home applications like this, eBay is also great for camera's. A
while ago I picked up some night vision outdoor ones for £22 which have
worked terrific (Seller was chinaezone). He sells them for £0.01 and
£21.99 postage (Obviously skirting around the eBay fees, but I could
care less, good luck to him). These have happily sat outside the house
come rain or shine and the night vision on them works very well. We can
see clearly who's at the door and the entries to the house are covered.
There's an abundance of other cameras on eBay too, I'd seriously check
them out for this . I couldn't find any UK supplier anywhere that would
beat the prices on there, I've bought from UK suppliers, and just the
power sellers on eBay and they really just sell the same things with a
BIG price difference!

Obviously if you were buying for a professional application, eBay may
not be the best place ;)

> (3) Anyone able to suggest a better system? 4 cameras would be a bit
> limiting (although I know I could add another server to this idea, that
> makes it unweildy). The alternative I can see if normal USB webcams and
> software on a PC to run them and provide the same service. This would
> probably be a bit cheaper (depending on the cost of the software - anyone
> got any suggestions for this), but would require a PC being on 24/7, adding
> to the running costs.

For me, I went with a bunch of normal camera's (not IP ones) and wired
up them up with the proper cables (These have connectors for
power/audio/video, and are about a £15-20 per 20m). They now link up to
a dedicated server and it all does exactly what I want. The server
constantly transfers the images to another site with SCP. I didn't keep
the 9100A for long. I may have done if the motion recording/sending via
FTP was better.

No experience with IP cameras, they may do exactly what you want in one
neat package. Could well be worth looking into.


Posted by Simon Finnigan on October 4, 2005, 11:20 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
> Simon Finnigan wrote:
>> Maybe OT, maybe not - not entirely sure :-)
>>
>> Anyway, for various reasons I'd like to install a CCTV system in my home.
>> Any images taken would be limited to being on my own property, and
>> anotice would be placed at the enterance to the property explaining the
>> situation to cover myself under the DPA - lets leave the legal issues to
>> the uk.legal thread I'll be starting up :-)
>
> This isn't an issue so long as you're careful where you point them. If
> it's at your own property, it isn't a problem.

If Iwhere to extend the system to cover the back garden and driveway, while
avoiding the neighbours gardens/public path out the front of the house, is
this still the case?

> This demo has an annoying habit of keep requesting your username and
> password. I didn't have this issue with mine, I don't know if they've
> configured it in some cack-handed way. While there's some good
> functionality there, none of this is present in non-IE browsers. This may
> or may not be an issue for you. I had one of these for a while, and it
> worked reasonably well.

I can't remember the last time I used a PC that didn't have IE installed.
It could well have been last cenury :-)

>> Now if I get this and buy 4 normal CCTV cameras (a cheap source for these
>> would be greatly appreciated) I'd have a system that would let me have 4
>> cameras, sited where I want them (within cabling restraints), viewable
>> over the internet without the need to leave a PC running 24/7.
>
> The 9100A would be fine for this, but you'd be lucky doing recording with
> it too. The motion detection wasn't too good on the one I had (It would
> constantly trigger, even when the sensitivity was changed, and this was
> with version 2.37 firmware). The 9100A just isn't meant for unattending
> recording. If you want decent recording, I'd go with setting up a proper
> video server with a 4-port camera PCI card in the back. These are usually
> expandable to 16 ports if you add more cameras.

How many cameras have you got in your machine, and what kind of spec is it?
the big issue I have is that I'm loath to leave a PC running 24/7 when I'm
out of the house for a few days or longer. How stable is the software that
you use?

I suppose if the PC needs low enough specs so it could all be passively
cooled, that removes a massive chunk of the mechanical reliability worries -
if there are no fans in the machine, there are no fans to break. Maybe even
run it on a solid state disk, a 1 or 2 gig compact flash card in an IDE
adaptor. Quick and silent.

> For home applications like this, eBay is also great for camera's. A while
> ago I picked up some night vision outdoor ones for £22 which have worked
> terrific (Seller was chinaezone). He sells them for £0.01 and £21.99
> postage (Obviously skirting around the eBay fees, but I could care less,
> good luck to him). These have happily sat outside the house come rain or
> shine and the night vision on them works very well. We can see clearly
> who's at the door and the entries to the house are covered. There's an
> abundance of other cameras on eBay too, I'd seriously check them out for
> this . I couldn't find any UK supplier anywhere that would beat the
> prices on there, I've bought from UK suppliers, and just the power sellers
> on eBay and they really just sell the same things with a BIG price
> difference!

I'll check him out. I'd like to get fairly decent night vision cameras that
work in colour in normal light too ideally - so there is no need to worry
about having lights on to ensure a good picture.

I don't suppose you have any screenshots from the cameras you've got, to
give me an idea of the kind of picture quality to expect? Also, what
capturing hardware/software do you use, so I can look into it.

> For me, I went with a bunch of normal camera's (not IP ones) and wired up
> them up with the proper cables (These have connectors for
> power/audio/video, and are about a £15-20 per 20m). They now link up to a
> dedicated server and it all does exactly what I want. The server
> constantly transfers the images to another site with SCP. I didn't keep
> the 9100A for long. I may have done if the motion recording/sending via
> FTP was better.
>
> No experience with IP cameras, they may do exactly what you want in one
> neat package. Could well be worth looking into.

An IP camera would let me have as many cameras as I want, where I want, and
with power over ethernet they'd needfewer cables. However, they are a LOt
more expensive, and this is for home security, a cheap little system.

I'd love to be able to set-up a webpage that contains a regularly updated
images from one or more of the cameras, and enter it as a bookmark on my
mobile phone. Then if I want to chec out a room, I can just do it from my
mobile (use up my free data allowances too ;-) ). Does your software allow
that?

And one final question - how much bandwidth does your system use to store
the images elsewhere? I'm planning on getting an offsite server still
connected to my network, so bandwidth shouldn't be an issue (up to 100
megabits anyway :-) ) but I'd still like to be able to store the images
offsite as they go - if I'm away for a week, get the images emailed to me or
similar, to ensure they are still accessible even if the entire house
contents go walkies.

Thanks for your help!

--
What am I selling on ebay right now?
http://tinyurl.com/38yjc
Earn money reading emails!
http://tinyurl.com/2pcgm
One month FREE spam and fraud protection at
http://www.cloudmark.com/safetybarsig/?rc=kmj4hl




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