Root CA CRLs

Root CA CRLs

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Subject Author Date
Root CA CRLs Seeker 10-25-2006
---> Re: Root CA CRLs Anne & Lynn Whe...10-25-2006
---> Re: Root CA CRLs Brian Komar [MV...10-25-2006
Posted by Seeker on October 25, 2006, 1:35 pm
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I'm setting up a two-tier PKI hierarchy. The root will be offline and
will sign the issuing CA certificate. What is the best-practice for the
root Certificate Revocation List and revoking the root certificate?

Should I immediately revoke the root certificate after creating the
issuing CA and store it in a secure location in case the passphrase is lost?

Should I create a certificate revocation list from the root or only on
the issuing CA? I certainly don't want to have to retrieve the root
authority to update the list, but will the clients handle this OK if the
root public key is in the browser but the issuing CA revokes
certificates and publishes the list? I would think so, since the chain
should be intact.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by Anne & Lynn Wheeler on October 25, 2006, 1:56 pm
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> I'm setting up a two-tier PKI hierarchy. The root will be offline and
> will sign the issuing CA certificate. What is the best-practice for the
> root Certificate Revocation List and revoking the root certificate?
>
> Should I immediately revoke the root certificate after creating the
> issuing CA and store it in a secure location in case the passphrase is lost?
>
> Should I create a certificate revocation list from the root or only on
> the issuing CA? I certainly don't want to have to retrieve the root
> authority to update the list, but will the clients handle this OK if the
> root public key is in the browser but the issuing CA revokes
> certificates and publishes the list? I would think so, since the chain
> should be intact.

scrap PKIs, certification authorities, and certificate revocation list
... and migrate to real-time, online infrastructure.

the original kerberos pk-init ... misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#kerberos

started out with a certificateless public key infrastructure ... the
registration authority (which is common to lots of business processes)
just registered the public key in lieu of a password ... w/o having to
issue a certificate ... misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#certless

so entities can connect/login just thru kerberos digital signature
authentication protocol ... where the digital signature is directly
verified by doing real-time access to the registered public key.

note there was also a similar certificateless done for radius ...
again, w/o having to resort to any of the PKI, certification
authority, and/or certificate revocation list stuff.

for the SSL, server authentication/encryption scenario ... misc.
past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert

the scenario involved registering public keys with the domain name
infrastructure ... and doing real-time retrieval of public keys as
part of the existing domain name infrastructure protocols (even
piggyback in existing transmission).

the issue here was that the PKI/CA business operations were already
somewhat advocating registration of public keys with the domain name
infrastructure ... as a countermeasure to some integrity issues that
the SSL domain name certificate operations have ... aka as part of a
ceritification authority certifying a SSL domain name certificate
operations ... they have to validate that they are dealing with the
true domain name owner. they currently require a lot of
"identification" information ... which then they cross check with the
registered identification for the domain name owner on file with the
domain name infrastructure. having the domain name owner register a
public key helps eliminate some vulnerabilities associated with
who the domain name owner is.

this does represent something of a catch-22 for the SSL domain name
certificate operation. With a public key on file for the domain name
owner, they can now require that all SSL domain name certificate
applications be digitally signed. They can then do a real-time
(certificateless) retrieval of the public key from the domain name
infrastructure for validating the digital signature. This turns and
expensive, error-prone, and time-consuming identification process into
a simple, less-expensive, and more reliable authentication process.

the catch-22 issues are:

1) SSL domain name certificates were originally justified (in part)
based on integrity issues with the domain name infrastructure.
improving the overall integrity of the domain name infrastructure
reduces some of the originally justification for having SSL domain
name certificates

2) if the SSL domain name certificate operations can do real-time
retrieval of public keys for their purposes ... then it is possible
that the rest of the world could also start doing real-time retrieval
of public keys from the domain name infrastructure ... eliminating the
need for SSL domain name certificates at all.

misc. past posts mentioning the catch-22 issue for the SSL domain name
certificate business related to their desire to have public keys
registered with the domain name infrastructure ... and being able to
do real-time, certificateless, public key retrievals.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#catch22


Posted by Brian Komar [MVP] on October 25, 2006, 2:42 pm
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What????


> > I'm setting up a two-tier PKI hierarchy. The root will be offline and
> > will sign the issuing CA certificate. What is the best-practice for the
> > root Certificate Revocation List and revoking the root certificate?
> >
> > Should I immediately revoke the root certificate after creating the
> > issuing CA and store it in a secure location in case the passphrase is lost?
> >
> > Should I create a certificate revocation list from the root or only on
> > the issuing CA? I certainly don't want to have to retrieve the root
> > authority to update the list, but will the clients handle this OK if the
> > root public key is in the browser but the issuing CA revokes
> > certificates and publishes the list? I would think so, since the chain
> > should be intact.
>
> scrap PKIs, certification authorities, and certificate revocation list
> ... and migrate to real-time, online infrastructure.
>
> the original kerberos pk-init ... misc. past posts
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#kerberos
>
> started out with a certificateless public key infrastructure ... the
> registration authority (which is common to lots of business processes)
> just registered the public key in lieu of a password ... w/o having to
> issue a certificate ... misc. past posts
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#certless
>
> so entities can connect/login just thru kerberos digital signature
> authentication protocol ... where the digital signature is directly
> verified by doing real-time access to the registered public key.
>
> note there was also a similar certificateless done for radius ...
> again, w/o having to resort to any of the PKI, certification
> authority, and/or certificate revocation list stuff.
>
> for the SSL, server authentication/encryption scenario ... misc.
> past posts
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert
>
> the scenario involved registering public keys with the domain name
> infrastructure ... and doing real-time retrieval of public keys as
> part of the existing domain name infrastructure protocols (even
> piggyback in existing transmission).
>
> the issue here was that the PKI/CA business operations were already
> somewhat advocating registration of public keys with the domain name
> infrastructure ... as a countermeasure to some integrity issues that
> the SSL domain name certificate operations have ... aka as part of a
> ceritification authority certifying a SSL domain name certificate
> operations ... they have to validate that they are dealing with the

Posted by Paul Adare on October 25, 2006, 3:15 pm
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microsoft.public.security news group, Brian Komar [MVP]

> What????
>

That has been my response (thought, not posted) to every post ever made
in these newsgroups by lynn@garlic.com. Just a bunch of poorly written,
inane drivel that never seems to come close to answering the posted
question. I just ignore anything from them now.

--
Paul Adare - MVP Virtual Machines
Waiting for a bus is about as thrilling as fishing,
with the similar tantalisation that something,
sometime, somehow, will turn up. George Courtauld


Posted by Seeker on October 25, 2006, 2:48 pm
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> scrap PKIs, certification authorities, and certificate revocation list
> ... and migrate to real-time, online infrastructure.

Interesting, and thank you, but this project requires a traditional PKI
for many different purposes.

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