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How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on workstations?
How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on workstations?

How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on workstations?

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Subject Author Date
How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on workstations? Spin 08-29-2008
Posted by S. Pidgorny on September 1, 2008, 4:42 am
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G'day:

Roger Abell [MVP] wrote:

>> Likewise we make users local admins, having found limited-user working to
>> cause too many problems. We maintain the local Administrator password with
>> a
>> small program run from the logon-script. This arrangement has the
>> advantage
>> that if an installer forgets to set a password, the standardised one will
>> be
>> set at next logon.

> I could argue that your entire client infrastructure is open to high risk,
> not just of attack/compromise but perhaps more significantly for violation
> of information privacy. Consider, any account (you say they are admins)
> can get the local admin password from the program used to set that pwd.
> It might take a little effort, but I would bet that you cannot prevent that.
> So, any accont can obtain a password valid for admin access on any of
> the client systems. That basically means that anything stored on any of
> those systems is or can be made available. As for network stored data
> it would only by a keylogger away.
>
> Roger
> PS We have found that users can function without problem as non-admin.

I second Roger's comments.

If you want to manage local admin passwords, you actually have to alert
on every case the local password will be changed. Otherwise there is
little point.


--
Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE
-= F1 is the key =-

* http://sl.mvps.org * http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp *

Posted by =?Utf-8?B?QW50ZWF1cw==?= on August 31, 2008, 4:50 am
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Possibly, though it would not be easy to exploit.

On this subject, bear in mind that setting and forgetting a notebook BIOS
password can effectively brick the machine. The password is typically stored
in a NVRAM chip, and sometimes the only remedy possible is to replace this
chip, which requires SMD soldering kit. This is more of a concern, especially
as there is in most cases no way to prevent a 'clever clogs' user from doing
the set/forget trick, not realising the seriousness of their blunder.

Some OEMs even go as far as provide a desktop utility that sets the NVRAM
password. Most users, on seeing this, will *think* it sets their LAN
password, with predictable consequences.

"Mathieu CHATEAU" wrote:

> I have heard even a workaround for this:
>
> Write a bad bit in the bios configuration. Then the bios will return to
> default at next boot.
> But i don't know tool for this and needed write to do so.
> Maybe by customising a bios update tool from Dell or Asus...
>

Posted by Roger Abell [MVP] on August 31, 2008, 10:03 am
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Also, look at what Group Policy Preferences can do for you, allowing you
to run computer startup/shutdown script (selectively by GPO targets).
Setting password from network is always a hazard as at some point the
password is either available on the network or it is obtainable from its
storage point, but at least with computer script you can make that storage
inaccessible to all except the computer accounts that need access.

As far as I have determined, client system local admin account(s) are a
darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. The local account is
not needed on most systems for daily operations. If something happens
such that local admin login is needed it probably needs to have been set
up / enabled before that something happens. If there is no local admin
account prepared and available, then techs are using domain accounts,
which probably means that there are domain accounts in daily use that
have large-scale admin access over all, or major sections of, the client
systems. If one tries to keep one local admin account ready to go, it
should have either a unique password (and not one that can be determined
from some formula such that if you know one you can substitute part and
get the password for another system) or if not unique then many should
be used, each on some small logical subset of the client systems. That
however has problems in keeping track of what password to use where
and of making passwords available when need (and only then) to those
that need to use them (and only to those).

There simply appears to be no great solution when using only accounts
and passwords.

Roger

> Gurus,
>
> How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on
> workstations? Typically the end-users do run with "administrative"
> privileges, but a local admin account is needed to access a machine
> offline. So how is this account typically named (i.e. renamed) and
> password secured (i.e., complex and only a few people know it)? Then you
> have the problem of having to change this password on every workstation if
> a member of the IT staff leaves. Just looking for quick thoughts here, no
> long treatise on the topic is necessary!
>
> --
> Spin



Posted by =?Utf-8?B?RGFu?= on August 31, 2008, 6:40 pm
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Okay, so what is the best policy to secure the network? I am thinking a
combination of biometrics, passwords and potentially keycards. What are
people's thoughts on this. Perhaps, this list as a suggestion:

1. fingerprint scanner -- cleaned when done to prevent band-aid technique of
using same fingerprints after person scanned originally

2. keycard access --- perhaps as a swipe which is a special keycard seperate
from access keycard to secure and safe computer room

3. complex password to login to computer --- numerous passwords with at
least 7+ alpha-numeric and special character and grc.com can generate random
complex passwords to give users an idea and Microsoft's password checker is
also good.

4. Any other thoughts?

"Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:

> Also, look at what Group Policy Preferences can do for you, allowing you
> to run computer startup/shutdown script (selectively by GPO targets).
> Setting password from network is always a hazard as at some point the
> password is either available on the network or it is obtainable from its
> storage point, but at least with computer script you can make that storage
> inaccessible to all except the computer accounts that need access.
>
> As far as I have determined, client system local admin account(s) are a
> darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. The local account is
> not needed on most systems for daily operations. If something happens
> such that local admin login is needed it probably needs to have been set
> up / enabled before that something happens. If there is no local admin
> account prepared and available, then techs are using domain accounts,
> which probably means that there are domain accounts in daily use that
> have large-scale admin access over all, or major sections of, the client
> systems. If one tries to keep one local admin account ready to go, it
> should have either a unique password (and not one that can be determined
> from some formula such that if you know one you can substitute part and
> get the password for another system) or if not unique then many should
> be used, each on some small logical subset of the client systems. That
> however has problems in keeping track of what password to use where
> and of making passwords available when need (and only then) to those
> that need to use them (and only to those).
>
> There simply appears to be no great solution when using only accounts
> and passwords.
>
> Roger
>
> > Gurus,
> >
> > How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on
> > workstations? Typically the end-users do run with "administrative"
> > privileges, but a local admin account is needed to access a machine
> > offline. So how is this account typically named (i.e. renamed) and
> > password secured (i.e., complex and only a few people know it)? Then you
> > have the problem of having to change this password on every workstation if
> > a member of the IT staff leaves. Just looking for quick thoughts here, no
> > long treatise on the topic is necessary!
> >
> > --
> > Spin
>
>
>

Posted by Brian Komar \(MVP\) on August 31, 2008, 6:48 pm
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How about something that actually works, like two factor authentication.
Fingerprint scanners are easily defeated, watch Mythbusters
Card key access is getting there, but swipe is one factor.
7+ passwords is really not a strong passwored. Especially when working with
archaic operating systems like Windows 98 that use LM hashes that are easily
broken. A real operating system would recomend using passphrases that are
16+ characters.
Brian

> Okay, so what is the best policy to secure the network? I am thinking a
> combination of biometrics, passwords and potentially keycards. What are
> people's thoughts on this. Perhaps, this list as a suggestion:
>
> 1. fingerprint scanner -- cleaned when done to prevent band-aid technique
> of
> using same fingerprints after person scanned originally
>
> 2. keycard access --- perhaps as a swipe which is a special keycard
> seperate
> from access keycard to secure and safe computer room
>
> 3. complex password to login to computer --- numerous passwords with at
> least 7+ alpha-numeric and special character and grc.com can generate
> random
> complex passwords to give users an idea and Microsoft's password checker
> is
> also good.
>
> 4. Any other thoughts?
>
> "Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Also, look at what Group Policy Preferences can do for you, allowing you
>> to run computer startup/shutdown script (selectively by GPO targets).
>> Setting password from network is always a hazard as at some point the
>> password is either available on the network or it is obtainable from its
>> storage point, but at least with computer script you can make that
>> storage
>> inaccessible to all except the computer accounts that need access.
>>
>> As far as I have determined, client system local admin account(s) are a
>> darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. The local account is
>> not needed on most systems for daily operations. If something happens
>> such that local admin login is needed it probably needs to have been set
>> up / enabled before that something happens. If there is no local admin
>> account prepared and available, then techs are using domain accounts,
>> which probably means that there are domain accounts in daily use that
>> have large-scale admin access over all, or major sections of, the client
>> systems. If one tries to keep one local admin account ready to go, it
>> should have either a unique password (and not one that can be determined
>> from some formula such that if you know one you can substitute part and
>> get the password for another system) or if not unique then many should
>> be used, each on some small logical subset of the client systems. That
>> however has problems in keeping track of what password to use where
>> and of making passwords available when need (and only then) to those
>> that need to use them (and only to those).
>>
>> There simply appears to be no great solution when using only accounts
>> and passwords.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> > Gurus,
>> >
>> > How does your organizations manage the local administrator account on
>> > workstations? Typically the end-users do run with "administrative"
>> > privileges, but a local admin account is needed to access a machine
>> > offline. So how is this account typically named (i.e. renamed) and
>> > password secured (i.e., complex and only a few people know it)? Then
>> > you
>> > have the problem of having to change this password on every workstation
>> > if
>> > a member of the IT staff leaves. Just looking for quick thoughts here,
>> > no
>> > long treatise on the topic is necessary!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Spin
>>
>>
>>


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