Help with security groups

Help with security groups

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Subject Author Date
Help with security groups Software Geek P 10-09-2006
Posted by =?Utf-8?B?U29mdHdhcmUgR2VlayBQ on October 9, 2006, 2:09 pm
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As part of our product's installation, we create a new security group to
allow/restrict access to our product's installation folder, registry entries,
etc. The problem is that if we create a new user account, then add that new
user to our new security group, the user cannot access the product's
installation folder even though that user is part of our group that has
permission to access that folder (get the "<folder> is not accessible.
Access is denied" error message). If we open the the folder's security
properties, check "modify" and then uncheck "modify" for our new group,
everything works and the new user can now successfully access the folder,
registry entries, etc. Am I missing something or is this a known behavior?

Thanks.

Posted by Roger Abell [MVP] on October 9, 2006, 5:53 pm
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> As part of our product's installation, we create a new security group to
> allow/restrict access to our product's installation folder, registry
> entries,
> etc. The problem is that if we create a new user account, then add that
> new
> user to our new security group, the user cannot access the product's
> installation folder even though that user is part of our group that has
> permission to access that folder (get the "<folder> is not accessible.
> Access is denied" error message). If we open the the folder's security
> properties, check "modify" and then uncheck "modify" for our new group,
> everything works and the new user can now successfully access the folder,
> registry entries, etc. Am I missing something or is this a known
> behavior?
>

Well, yes you probably are missing something. But from what you have
said it is not easy to determine what. And no, this is not a known
behavior.

What is the OS where the install happens, what is the precise sequence of
events (new user login _afer_ configured to be in the group?) etc.

It is quite peculiar that adding and removing Modify on the directory would
clear up access to the registry, for example - well actually it is pretty
odd
it is needed at all (i.e. for the directory either).

--
Roger Abell
Microsoft MVP (Windows Server : Security)




Posted by =?Utf-8?B?RCcnbmkgRXhwbG9yZXI= on October 10, 2006, 8:30 am
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Thank you for your reply. Here is what I am trying to do:

During our install, we have a custom action that creates a local group using
the NetLocalGroupAdd() API function, passing in a LOCALGROUP_INFO_1 pointer
for one of the function's parameters. After rebooting, I log in as
administrator and create a new user. I then open the user's properties, go
to the "Member Of" tab and add the new local group created by our install.
The security properties for our installation folder are set based on the
usage of our new local group (we set read/execute, list folder contents, and
read permissions on the folder). I log out from the Administrator account
and log back in using my new test user account. Under the new test user
account I find that I cannot access our installation folder or run the
application. I get the "<folder> not accessible. Access is denied" error
message. I am currently performing these actions on Windows Server 2003 SP1.

"Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:

> > As part of our product's installation, we create a new security group to
> > allow/restrict access to our product's installation folder, registry
> > entries,
> > etc. The problem is that if we create a new user account, then add that
> > new
> > user to our new security group, the user cannot access the product's
> > installation folder even though that user is part of our group that has
> > permission to access that folder (get the "<folder> is not accessible.
> > Access is denied" error message). If we open the the folder's security
> > properties, check "modify" and then uncheck "modify" for our new group,
> > everything works and the new user can now successfully access the folder,
> > registry entries, etc. Am I missing something or is this a known
> > behavior?
> >
>
> Well, yes you probably are missing something. But from what you have
> said it is not easy to determine what. And no, this is not a known
> behavior.
>
> What is the OS where the install happens, what is the precise sequence of
> events (new user login _afer_ configured to be in the group?) etc.
>
> It is quite peculiar that adding and removing Modify on the directory would
> clear up access to the registry, for example - well actually it is pretty
> odd
> it is needed at all (i.e. for the directory either).
>
> --
> Roger Abell
> Microsoft MVP (Windows Server : Security)
>
>
>
>

Posted by Roger Abell [MVP] on October 11, 2006, 11:52 am
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Well, your sequence is correct and hence not the cause.
You have defined the group, ACL'd the resource with this,
defined the account as member of group, and then logged
in, at which point the account should have the permissions
that you have ACL'd.

Are you using auditing for failure on the resource so that
you would get a detail failure message in the event log?
Such may show that the open action is requesting more
than just read and execute, such as write, when it asks
for the handle. Of course, if that is the issue, then what
you initally described, adding Modify and then removing
would not cure things (well, there is an end-case for XP
where sometime some residual excess grant can remain
that only shows if you look at the Advanced view to see
the Special details - which is why I was asking about the
OS version involved). As it is your application you could
probably examine and see what accesses are requested.
Otherwise you could try use of filemon from sysinternals.com
to see details of the failing actions.

You initally also posted that you have similar issue with
registry grants. I was unclear whether these clear up due
to your tweaking with the NTFS permissions or whether
some other action was needed with them.

In summary, what you are doing to provision the account
sounds correct, and it should work IF what you are granting
is all that is needed to use the area, and that there is no known
(mis-)behavior of the ACL'ing mechanisms that would account
for what you are seeing (other than mentioned above).

Roger

> Thank you for your reply. Here is what I am trying to do:
>
> During our install, we have a custom action that creates a local group
> using
> the NetLocalGroupAdd() API function, passing in a LOCALGROUP_INFO_1
> pointer
> for one of the function's parameters. After rebooting, I log in as
> administrator and create a new user. I then open the user's properties,
> go
> to the "Member Of" tab and add the new local group created by our install.
> The security properties for our installation folder are set based on the
> usage of our new local group (we set read/execute, list folder contents,
> and
> read permissions on the folder). I log out from the Administrator account
> and log back in using my new test user account. Under the new test user
> account I find that I cannot access our installation folder or run the
> application. I get the "<folder> not accessible. Access is denied" error
> message. I am currently performing these actions on Windows Server 2003
> SP1.
>
> "Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> > As part of our product's installation, we create a new security group
>> > to
>> > allow/restrict access to our product's installation folder, registry
>> > entries,
>> > etc. The problem is that if we create a new user account, then add
>> > that
>> > new
>> > user to our new security group, the user cannot access the product's
>> > installation folder even though that user is part of our group that has
>> > permission to access that folder (get the "<folder> is not accessible.
>> > Access is denied" error message). If we open the the folder's security
>> > properties, check "modify" and then uncheck "modify" for our new group,
>> > everything works and the new user can now successfully access the
>> > folder,
>> > registry entries, etc. Am I missing something or is this a known
>> > behavior?
>> >
>>
>> Well, yes you probably are missing something. But from what you have
>> said it is not easy to determine what. And no, this is not a known
>> behavior.
>>
>> What is the OS where the install happens, what is the precise sequence of
>> events (new user login _afer_ configured to be in the group?) etc.
>>
>> It is quite peculiar that adding and removing Modify on the directory
>> would
>> clear up access to the registry, for example - well actually it is pretty
>> odd
>> it is needed at all (i.e. for the directory either).
>>
>> --
>> Roger Abell
>> Microsoft MVP (Windows Server : Security)
>>
>>
>>
>>



Posted by =?Utf-8?B?RCcnbmkgRXhwbG9yZXI= on October 11, 2006, 2:20 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Thank you again for your reply. I verified the registry grants do work as
needed, so it seems to be an issue only with the folder permissions. Outside
of our app I am not able to even open the desired folder in Windows Explorer
and get the "access is denied" error message. I will try to use filemon when
executing our app to see if we need more permissions.

Thank you.

"Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:

> Well, your sequence is correct and hence not the cause.
> You have defined the group, ACL'd the resource with this,
> defined the account as member of group, and then logged
> in, at which point the account should have the permissions
> that you have ACL'd.
>
> Are you using auditing for failure on the resource so that
> you would get a detail failure message in the event log?
> Such may show that the open action is requesting more
> than just read and execute, such as write, when it asks
> for the handle. Of course, if that is the issue, then what
> you initally described, adding Modify and then removing
> would not cure things (well, there is an end-case for XP
> where sometime some residual excess grant can remain
> that only shows if you look at the Advanced view to see
> the Special details - which is why I was asking about the
> OS version involved). As it is your application you could
> probably examine and see what accesses are requested.
> Otherwise you could try use of filemon from sysinternals.com
> to see details of the failing actions.
>
> You initally also posted that you have similar issue with
> registry grants. I was unclear whether these clear up due
> to your tweaking with the NTFS permissions or whether
> some other action was needed with them.
>
> In summary, what you are doing to provision the account
> sounds correct, and it should work IF what you are granting
> is all that is needed to use the area, and that there is no known
> (mis-)behavior of the ACL'ing mechanisms that would account
> for what you are seeing (other than mentioned above).
>
> Roger
>
> > Thank you for your reply. Here is what I am trying to do:
> >
> > During our install, we have a custom action that creates a local group
> > using
> > the NetLocalGroupAdd() API function, passing in a LOCALGROUP_INFO_1
> > pointer
> > for one of the function's parameters. After rebooting, I log in as
> > administrator and create a new user. I then open the user's properties,
> > go
> > to the "Member Of" tab and add the new local group created by our install.
> > The security properties for our installation folder are set based on the
> > usage of our new local group (we set read/execute, list folder contents,
> > and
> > read permissions on the folder). I log out from the Administrator account
> > and log back in using my new test user account. Under the new test user
> > account I find that I cannot access our installation folder or run the
> > application. I get the "<folder> not accessible. Access is denied" error
> > message. I am currently performing these actions on Windows Server 2003
> > SP1.
> >
> > "Roger Abell [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> > As part of our product's installation, we create a new security group
> >> > to
> >> > allow/restrict access to our product's installation folder, registry
> >> > entries,
> >> > etc. The problem is that if we create a new user account, then add
> >> > that
> >> > new
> >> > user to our new security group, the user cannot access the product's
> >> > installation folder even though that user is part of our group that has
> >> > permission to access that folder (get the "<folder> is not accessible.
> >> > Access is denied" error message). If we open the the folder's security
> >> > properties, check "modify" and then uncheck "modify" for our new group,
> >> > everything works and the new user can now successfully access the
> >> > folder,
> >> > registry entries, etc. Am I missing something or is this a known
> >> > behavior?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well, yes you probably are missing something. But from what you have
> >> said it is not easy to determine what. And no, this is not a known
> >> behavior.
> >>
> >> What is the OS where the install happens, what is the precise sequence of
> >> events (new user login _afer_ configured to be in the group?) etc.
> >>
> >> It is quite peculiar that adding and removing Modify on the directory
> >> would
> >> clear up access to the registry, for example - well actually it is pretty
> >> odd
> >> it is needed at all (i.e. for the directory either).
> >>
> >> --
> >> Roger Abell
> >> Microsoft MVP (Windows Server : Security)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

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