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Subject Author Date
security@home RJK 11-08-2006
Posted by Shenan Stanley on January 3, 2007, 7:02 pm
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<snipped>
See:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.security.virus/browse_thread/thread/cb57e2663956d6b4/f57bcad9a6e96d75#f57bcad9a6e96d75

for the entire thread...

Rock wrote:
> It's hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like
> a stream of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the
> original thread, but I have tried to read and understand both your
> original post and your reply. Neither one makes much sense.
>
> It is normal procedure to quote at least a part, if not all, of the
> message to which one replies. This is actually a newsgroup, not a
> forum. Many people use a newsreader to access it and only download
> the most recent messages so the need to quote the previous message
> is imperative to keep an understanding of the thread.
>
> As to your not understanding the reference to the interface and
> outlook express, you are accessing this newsgroup using the web
> access or interface. That interface is just plain lousy. As I
> stated before this actually is Usenet newsgroup. You would be much
> better off using a newsreader to access it. XP comes with Outlook
> Express which can be set up for newsgroup access.
>
> Here is a link with info on how to setup Outlook Express for
> newsgroup access:
> http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
>
> As to your problem with updates, I don't know what you were doing,
> but updates don't just automatically install themselves. You have
> to tell them to install. So you did something. Confusion seems to
> be rampant in your computing existence. Good luck to you.
>
> Oh, and here are some links with some good info on how to make a
> good newsgroup post. To start with, composing the message with
> good grammar, spelling, punctuation and capitalization helps loads.
> Break up paragraphs - no more than 5 or 6 lines maximum. One
> thought per paragraph. Include relevant details, leave out
> extraneous ramblings. One issue per post.
>
> Making Good Newsgroup Posts
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Jody wrote:
> THE END GO HURT SOMEONE ELSE OH DON'T E-MAIL ME AS YOU ORDERED ME
> NOT TO DO TO YOU WHO THE HELL ARE YOU ANYWAY but don't waste my
> time just please be someone who helps a new person all you did was
> hurt me

Jody,

I am unsure why constructive criticism would hurt you. I believe you may
have taken Rock's message a bit too personal.

Rock was merely - as far as I can read into it - trying to get you to
organize your posts a bit differently. Organizing individual
thoughts/questions into separate paragraphs so that it is easier to read.
Using punctuation and such so that it is easier to tell where the questions
are and where the statements of the problem are. Etc. It is also customary
for one to respond/reply only in the newsgroups as they are archived and can
later be searched and answers to frequent questions reviewed and utilized by
others more easily.

I am sorry you feel that Rock's comments were hurtful. Perhaps if you
explained more about your personal situation or the reason you might post
the way you do - things would make more sense?

Come back - let us know more about your situation and what you need the most
help with. Stick to one problem for a post and I am sure we can help you
with that and then move on to the next problem with the next reply and so on
until you get the hang of this.

Do not take things personal in the newsgroups. You don't know these people
and you are unlikely to ever meet them in reality - nor is the reverse true.
If you feel a comment is hurtful - stop and rethink, but don't bother
retaliating or responding to what you thought was hurtful - just read the
stuff you need, thank them for that, and continue living your own happy
life. That is the best way to go about it, in my humble opinion.

As I have posted it in the other two responses I have made to you tonight -
I will post it again... I think things will be less confusing for you and
you will get more out of these newsgroups if you stop using Firefox or
Internet Explorer to view/utilize them. You can use another applications on
your computer to connect to these groups:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroupsetup.mspx

I hope this response or one of my other two help you and find you doing
well!

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html



Posted by Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM on January 4, 2007, 4:51 pm
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None of us can send you email. You didn't give us your email address.

>
> I appreciate the links. I did not know anything about Newsgroups,nor the
> differences in Outlook Express. I have never needed it and I don't need
> it now. You jump on my case and start talking about my misuse of grammar
> in such a rude way without giving me the opportunity to defend myself by
> saying I had no idea of the difference. Had you not reprimanded me about
> my grammar, which, sir was done in such a way that your ignorance showed
> with this whole paragraph -
> " hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream
>> of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the original thread, but I
>> have tried to read and understand both your original post and your reply.
>> Neither one makes much sense." I wasn't I am getting so angry I am
>> having to retype almose every word., I wasn't in the original thread
>> either but if this is how a person is treated in a newswhatever, I want
>> no part. I have to clear this up and oh my it is not in the correct
>> paragraph. I had my updates set to automatic and when Dell didn't give
>> me the time to change it , before I went on line THAT is how I received
>> the updates, which if the only way to receive "automatic updates" which
>> does take the users intervention. my my my how stupid did you think i
>> recieved the I am quitting here. All I wanted was help not a course in
>> grammar nor your lesson in psych(medical field) which is what I do. So
>> don't give someone new that ends up making them feel like the POS that
>> you made me feel.
> Jody
> THE END GO HURT SOMEONE ELSE OH DON'T E-MAIL ME AS YOU ORDERED ME NOT TO
> DO
> TO YOU WHO THE HELL ARE YOU ANYWAY but don't waste my time just please be
> someone who helps a new person all you did was hurt me


Posted by Max Wachtel on January 3, 2007, 2:06 am
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Jody wrote:
>
> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
>
>>> This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
>>> question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
>>> rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
>>> multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
>>> Microsoft related.
>>> I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates
>>> for
>>> Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting
>>> to
>>> off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
>>> those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after
>>> going
>>> from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
>>> tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was
>>> checking
>>> and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
>>> info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would
>>> be
>>> helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
>>> forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
>>> unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
>>> argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's
>>> other
>>> site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I
>>> would
>>> like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
>>> the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other
>>> forums
>>> so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and
>>> driving
>>> anyone who might read this crazy!
>>> Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
>>> questions.
>>> Jody
>>
>> Your post is confusing, but I take it your question is: "why I am getting
>> updates for
>> Office and other administrative topics?"
>>
>> Is Office installed?
>> What other administrative topics?
>>
>> Updates for Windows Defender signatures are distributed through Windows
>> Updates.
>>
>> If you have chosen Microsoft Updates on the Windows Updates sites you will
>> get updates for Microsoft Office programs you have installed plus, perhaps,
>> other Microsoft programs.
>>
>> I guess your long list of newsgroups is due to replying to RJK's post.
>>
>> If you have trouble finding replies there's nothing we can do about it as
>> long as you use that terrible Web interface instead of Outlook Express.
>> Especially since you do not include an email address and apparently don't
>> check the Web interface' box to be notified of replies to your post.
>>
>> --
>> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
>> http://www.fjsmjs.com
>> Answer in newsgroup. Don't send mail.
>>
>
>> I just found this reply in my e-mail and thought I had followed thru, but
obviously not,sorry. I did not mean to be irresponsible. This whole thread was
so confusing, I think I just couldn't find a way to reply. Why does the whole
previous post have to be included in a reply to my question,? thereby finding
any sort of answer very difficult. I would read and re-read each post thinking
it may have an answer, albeit however badly the question was asked. I
understood about the number of administrative /office etc I have installed which
would dictate whether to go to Windows or Microsoft updates. Well, I started
without any but when it was set to automatic, it downloaded and installed 36
updates before I had a chance to change the setting, but I still assumed it was
on Windows. I now have Microsoft ++CC whatever that is on my programs along
with NetFramework and all of its updates. It is too much trouble to go thru
each update and find the guilty ones and uninstall
them, so
> not only did I give up, I went to Firefox and never looked back. I still
check every couple of weeks and install the critical ones.

You need to check only once a month. MS issues updates on the second
Tuesday of each month.

> I know this is more than you wanted to know, but I bet I am no the only one
out there who does not use IE anymore.
> I still don't understand your reference to the "interface" I was using and
> something about Outlook Express. What is that all about?

Using a Newsreader (Thunderbird or Outlook Express have one) instead of
firefox makes reading the newsgroups easier.

> And just to be
> sure I went to my preferences page and made sure my e-mail address was there
> and that I could be contacted, And why would I e-mail you and not go thru
> the forum?

That was not directed specifically towards you. This is not a forum-it
is USENET.

It was those inferences I did not understand nor like and is the
> reason I haven't been back. But I didn't want to just quit coming here, you
> guys just completely and (I know this is easy to do!) going in circles.
> I received notification, obviously, of replies, so what are you talking about?
> Thanks for the answers and help that I did get - my 'ol brain is suffering
> with CSR.
> Jody

Back to your question-
Microsoft Update is different than Windows Update.
WU checks windows only.
MU checks windows and other Microsoft products like OfficeXP.

--
Playing Nice on Usenet:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost
My Pages:
Virus Removal Instructions
http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/
Keeping Windows Clean
http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/keepingclean.html
Windows Help and Tools
http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/tools.html
Change nomail.afraid.org to gmail.com to reply.
nomail.afraid.org is setup specifically for use in USENET
Feel free to use it yourself.

Posted by Shenan Stanley on January 3, 2007, 7:02 pm
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Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM wrote:
> Your post is confusing, but I take it your question is: "why I am
> getting updates for Office and other administrative topics?"
>
> Is Office installed?
> What other administrative topics?
>
> Updates for Windows Defender signatures are distributed through
> Windows Updates.
>
> If you have chosen Microsoft Updates on the Windows Updates sites
> you will get updates for Microsoft Office programs you have installed
> plus, perhaps, other Microsoft programs.
>
> I guess your long list of newsgroups is due to replying to RJK's
> post.
>
> If you have trouble finding replies there's nothing we can do
> about it as long as you use that terrible Web interface instead of
> Outlook Express. Especially since you do not include an email
> address and apparently don't check the Web interface' box to be
> notified of replies to your post.

Jody wrote:
> I just found this reply in my e-mail and thought I had followed
> thru, but obviously not,sorry. I did not mean to be
> irresponsible. This whole thread was so confusing, I think I just
> couldn't find a way to reply. Why does the whole previous post
> have to be included in a reply to my question? thereby finding
> any sort of answer very difficult.
>
> I would read and re-read each post thinking it may have an
> answer, albeit however badly the question was asked. I
> understood about the number of administrative /office etc
> I have installed which would dictate whether to go to Windows
> or Microsoft updates. Well, I started without any but when it
> was set to automatic, it downloaded and installed 36 updates
> before I had a chance to change the setting, but I still assumed
> it was on Windows.
>
> I now have Microsoft ++CC whatever that is on my programs
> along with NetFramework and all of its updates. It is too
> much trouble to go thru each update and find the guilty ones
> and uninstall them, so not only did I give up, I went to Firefox
> and never looked back. I still check every couple of weeks
> and install the critical ones. I know this is more than you
> wanted to know, but I bet I am no the only one out there who
> does not use IE anymore. I still don't understand your reference
> to the "interface" I was using and something about Outlook
> Express. What is that all about?
>
> And just to be sure I went to my preferences page and made sure
> my e-mail address was there and that I could be contacted, And
> why would I e-mail you and not go thru the forum? It was those
> inferences I did not understand nor like and is the reason I haven't
> been back. But I didn't want to just quit coming here, you guys
> just completely and (I know this is easy to do!) going in circles.
>
> I received notification, obviously, of replies, so what are you
> talking about?
>
> Thanks for the answers and help that I did get - my 'ol brain is
> suffering with CSR.

Jody,

Since I attempted to answer your previous post in this thread and
straightened out the jumbling of your typing so that it became a little
easier to digest - I figured I would do the same with this reply of yours as
well.

Frank seemed to ask some reasonable questions, based off your initial
posting.

The entire post does *not* have to be included in the reply - it does -
however, help those who are just coming into the conversation see where it
has progressed. It is also customary to cut out parts that are not
essential. I left out the inital post that Frank responded to to shorten
the whole thing - but I will reference the entire thread here, in case there
is a need to reflect:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.security.virus/browse_thread/thread/cb57e2663956d6b4/f57bcad9a6e96d75#f57bcad9a6e96d75

Now - with that out of the way - let's dive into your response to Frank (and
others?)

It downloaded and installed 36 updates... Okay - I can believe that - there
are over 60 past SP2 now. What's the problem? You mention - in passing -
references to something... But you do not detail anything. I am assuming -
possibly - you either had a problem on your system with a particular update
OR you got Internet Explorer 7.0 installed and things are a little weird for
you? Come back - let us know.

The updates you mention are not harmful and most likely - will be needed by
something you will utilize now or in the future. Things get updated - to
help protect you and your stuff and push out the latest enhancements.
That's the way this works.

I am unsure what using Firefox has to do with any of this unless the trouble
is that you have Internet Explorer 7.0 now and that is too much of a change
for you?

The references to using the Web Interface are due to the fact that you are
actually using Internet Explorer or Firefox to access these newsgroups.
That web interface is the worst way possible to access these groups. You
can use Outlook Express and you will have an easier time organizaing and
responding on these newsgroups. I gave this to you in my other response and
I will repeat it now:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroupsetup.mspx

That should get you setup using Outlook Express to read/post/reply on these
newsgroups...

I have no idea what you mean by, '... my 'ol brain is suffering with CSR
...' - as the only reference I could find had to do with the Center for
Scientific Review (CSR) - so you may need to expand on that acronym a bit
for us. =)

That's all I can see to really respond to here - I hope it helps!

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html



Posted by Shenan Stanley on January 3, 2007, 7:02 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Jody wrote:
> This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
> question (pop-up blocker, OK?!)
>
> Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the rules. But I need
> to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after multiple
> attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
> Microsoft related.
>
> I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting
> updates for Office and other administrative topics?
>
> I have since changed my setting to off for Updates but I check
> Windows Update every other day.
>
> I am one of those "newbies" trying to find answers to my own
> questions but after going from one site to another, I just quit. I have
> all the "Dummy" books and I tried to find out what NTFS meant and
> it isn't in any glossary I was checking and I wrote this as an example
> to what I have been going thru to find the info I need. I get quite
> frustrated and just quit.
>
> Any suggestions would be helpful.
>
> I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and
> this forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out
> answers but unfortunately I will end this reply more confused.
>
> By the way I went to argos.co and is there something I missed?
>
> I am now going to Richard's other site he mentioned and maybe
> I will find some relevant info. And yes I would like to know what
> a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find the answer
> on Microsoft.com drove me crazier.
>
> I have been to other forums so I am not a complete novice and now I
> running around in circles and driving anyone who might read this
> crazy!
>
> Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find
> answers to questions.

Wow... Okay. I have tried to clean up what you wrote and make it
semi-coherent above. So I have a few questions for you concerning what you
have posted and a few suggestions for learning...

You are obviously (given your first statement) trying to utilize the
newsgroups through the web interface. As anyone who frequents these groups
will tell you, that is one of the worst ways to access this newsgroup. A
better (and available to you - as you seem to be running Windows XP) way
would be to use Outlook Express as your 'newsreader'. You can find
instructions for this here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroupsetup.mspx

Now that we have hopefully gotten you off that horrid web page interface for
these groups, things might become easier for you.

You asked why you are getting updates for Office and Windows XP (You have
Windows XP Home with SP2...) That's a little bit of a broad question
leaving out way too many details. Also, I can see, by reading the rest of
your message, where you might have left out a word and meant to ask 'Why am
I *not* getting updates'... But I might be jumping too much there. Let's go
with the '... why I am getting updates for Office and other administrative
topics? ...' question as written.

You are getting updates because you are either visiting
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ and scanning for them and installing
them or you have enabled automatic updates. Microsoft decided they would
push all critical updates for their main products (Windows, Office, etc) in
this way. That way it is like 'one-stop-shopping' for all of your Microsoft
products. Getting updates is *not* a bad thing. Also you mention you have
set your 'automatic updates' to off and you check 'every other day' for
updates... That's a bit extreme... Microsoft releases new updates on a
schedule... The second Tuesday of every month. So if you wait until the day
after that and visit http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ and scan for
updates - you just might find something. That would be January 9, 2007 this
time...

I corrected your spelling above on NTFS. NFTS I do not believe has anything
to do with Windows XP or Microsoft products and may not even be a valid
acronym... NTFS on the other hand stands for 'NT File System' and you can
read some basic information on it here:
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/N/NTFS.html

Now you mentioned you came here 'obviously' because you had Windows
Defender. I hate to be the one to tell you this - but that would be less
than obvious to anyone and to be truthful - according to the support
reference on Microsoft's website - this is NOT the newsgroup for Windows
Defender. In fact - it specifically states that. See here:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/default.mspxThe
proper newsgroups for Windows Defender are listed as these:Windows Defender
newsgroups--------------------------------------------. Announcements
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.announcements
). General questions
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.general
). Installation questions
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.install
). Application compatibility questions
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.appcompat
). Networking questions
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.networking
). Definition updates
(http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/reader/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.private.security.spyware.signatures
)And at the very bottom, it says this (about this particular newsgroup
-microsoft.public.security.homeusers):"For other security questions not related
to Windows Defender like using afirewall, antivirus software, or security update
questions, please visit theSecurity for Home Computer Users newsgroup."Which -
to me anyway - pretty much says that you should post your WindowsDefender
questions in one of the groups above, but not
themicrosoft.public.security.homeusers, which is for 'other security
questionsnot related to Windows Defender'...You also may want to look carefully
and see this message is beingcross-posted (posted to multiple groups at one
time) to the following othernewsgroups:microsoft.public.security.virus,
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.outlookexpress.generalYes -
you can get answers to questions on this forum - but you must taketime, take a
deep breath, swallow a bit of your pride if necessary and posta complete and
intelligible question. It's much like asking a questionanywhere else, except
you have to remember that the only one that actuallycan SEE the issue first-hand
is you and it is up to you to describe it indetail to us.You also mentioned
visiting 'argos.co' and I have NO CLUE as to why youwould ever go there. Now I
had to assume that was one of two sites...Either http://www.argos.com (and you
did not type the 'm' in your haste) orhttp://www.argos.co.uk (and you neglected
to type the .uk for whateverreason...) Neither one makes sense as to something
you would visit, as theonly mention of it in this newsgroup I find is from AJR
(Richard) where hestates, '... There is a fault in its' IE6 in the
www.argos.co.uk web sitecauses that browser to bomb-out! ...' <-- and I cannot
fathom what wouldlead you to desire to visit the page in question from that
statement orthose arising from it. Then you state you are going to '...
Richard's othersite he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info ...'
<-- whichmakes me wonder even more why you would consider that a reference site
fromwhat Richard said in his post. It actually makes me feel you are notreading
anything, but skimming and looking for links. You have to read andcomprehend
the stuff around those links too - in most cases. *smile* Bythe way, here is
that thread in its entirety, if you wish to review and/orexplain where you
thought it said you should visit that site for
anyreason...http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_thread/thread/f37c3dcee24f0022/d38f008ebcb46546?tvc=2&q=#d38f008ebcb46546In
any case - getting past that confusion for the moment we will continuewith your
post... You say - last thing above - that you '... really justneed some
direction on how to find answers to questions ...' Okay - I thinkthat is
possible. First thing is to know what you are looking for. Knowwhat the
trouble is and the stuff that surrounds that trouble. If youcannot see images
on web pages, know that you cannot see those images usingInternet Explorer 6.0
on a Windows XP Home system with SP2 installed and ifthe images are just not
there or replaced with something like a box with ared x in the center... Once
you know that (and that should all be obvious -as it is all stuff sitting in
front of you) you should search for theanswer. One of the best ways I know is
utilizing google. Search using Google! http://www.google.com/ (How-to:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/help/basics.html )So now you visit
http://www.google.com/ and in the search field you mighttype in:Internet
Explorer images shown as box with red xAnd search. There will be some hits that
do not fit your case - but readthrough them... One hit that came up
was:http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/community/columns/ietopten.mspxWhich
specifically mentions "Red x instead of pictures" and gives solutionsto such a
dilemma. If you hadn't gotten a hit, you would need to rethinkthe way you
phrased your search, perhaps put quotes around certain things tomake them one
unit ("Internet Explorer" for example) and so on...You can also search these
newsgroups for questions that have already beenasked and quite possibly answered
using another google tool: google groups.http://groups.google.com/Although I
always use the advanced version:http://groups.google.com/advanced_searchSame
principle - more options.That pretty much clears out this post of yours...If you
have more questions or wish to calrify some things - come back andrespond to
this message!--Shenan Stanley MS-MVP--How To Ask Questions The Smart
Wayhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html



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