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security@home RJK 11-08-2006
Posted by RJK on November 8, 2006, 6:30 pm
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http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm
This web-site contains lots of contradictions !
...and it would take a lot of TIME to work through some of the things he
suggests - lots of which which could also cripple your PC.

It's actually quite cunning, the web site itself is sort of succinct but, at
almost every turn leads you off to somewhere, (where if you don't have lots
of PC / OS and application software and/or Internet experience), you could
end up getting your PC in a real mess.

He criticizes "internet security" applications, and the text on his site
could be misunderstood as giving advice to not use an internet security
application at all ! ...then he hyperlinks you off to a site where you
could end up taking advice to switch off XP services that you may need, by
taking losts of time to manually work through XP services.

Most home users don't implement common sense on the internet and SIMPLY DO
NOT want to know what a visual basic script, ActiveX control, Java Applet
actually is, and would rather trust their defenses to applications such as
Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite.

I wonder if the http://www.argos.co.uk web site loads and runs on B. Nice's
PC ? :-)

regards, Richard

...NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !


Posted by B. Nice on November 8, 2006, 8:21 pm
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wrote:

>...NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !

Why don't you just tell us right away which security company you
represent so we know who we are dealing with.

/B. Nice

--
Comments I make or advice I may provide is primarily aimed at home users.

Posted by RJK on November 9, 2006, 11:34 am
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I don't represent any company !
...I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
I would direct them there !
...and I would direct them to
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
...and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
.....they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !
They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
...then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
(who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
status bar !

My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
novice and/or stubborn users ! The reference on your web-site, to being
"pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,
and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
trying to get out, ...or in !
...but, there you go - I've said my piece again :-)

If I was attempting to make a living from "internet security" then I suppose
I can see where you're "coming from" on your site. Lots of good advice
that's beyond the understanding of most "ordinary users," - mainly due to
individual's time restraints, plus a good sprinkling of criticism aimed at
internet security appplications. Not that I was intending to imply that you
make a living from internet security advice - this was an impression I got
after looking around your web-site.

regards, Richard


> wrote:
>
>>...NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !
>
> Why don't you just tell us right away which security company you
> represent so we know who we are dealing with.
>
> /B. Nice
>
> --
> Comments I make or advice I may provide is primarily aimed at home users.


Posted by B. Nice on November 9, 2006, 12:50 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
wrote:

>I don't represent any company !
>...I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
>into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
>could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
>basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
>I would direct them there !
>...and I would direct them to
>http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
>...and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
>Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
>internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
>.....they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !

They don't need to know. All they need to do to reach a reasonable
level of surfing security is to install a robust browser that is build
for dealing with insecure networks like the internet and to be able to
destinguish between sites they trust and sites they don't. If they
can't do something as simple as that, they are better off pulling the
plug.

But of course, if people choose to stay ignorant, and therefore will
get repeatedly burned, that's their choice. I offer some groundrules
(that actually work) for those interrested - nothing else. People are
free to take my advice and free to ignore it and look for advice at
one of the gazillion other sites available. I really don't care.

The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense, especially
concerning features like "outbound control" and "making you invisible
on the internet", that many "firewall software companies" can get away
with on their web-sites.

>They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
>because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
>run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
>internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
>...then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
>changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
>then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
>configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
>bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
>(who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
>URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
>sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
>status bar !

As long as people don't understand that IE is a security threat by
design there is'nt that much to do.

>My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
>applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
>novice and/or stubborn users !

I see marketing is doing a great job.

>The reference on your web-site, to being
>"pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
>misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,

Which a novice of course is'nt able to do properly anyway.

And what is your opinion about all the nonsense warnings about
"attacks" that your "personal firewall" has hindered? A good firewall
is there to protect you. Not to brag about stopping "attacks" that
mostly are'nt real attacks anyway. It should just protect you and shut
up.

The only time it seems to keep quiet is when malware is bypassing it.
At the time you really need it to speak up, it won't.

>and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
>we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
>for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
>trying to get out, ...or in !
>...but, there you go - I've said my piece again :-)

True malware does'nt care about your security suites.

/B. Nice

--
Comments I make or advice I may provide is primarily aimed at home users.

Posted by Ted Zieglar on November 9, 2006, 1:00 pm
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"The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense..."

I don't see a problem with that, so long as you include a disclaimer:
ATTENTION - THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION.

BTW, I found a few newsgroups that you forgot to cross-post to.

---
Ted Zieglar
"Backup is a computer user's best friend."

B. Nice wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> I don't represent any company !
>> ...I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
>> into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
>> could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
>> basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
>> I would direct them there !
>> ...and I would direct them to
>> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
>> ...and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
>> Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
>> internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
>> .....they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !
>
> They don't need to know. All they need to do to reach a reasonable
> level of surfing security is to install a robust browser that is build
> for dealing with insecure networks like the internet and to be able to
> destinguish between sites they trust and sites they don't. If they
> can't do something as simple as that, they are better off pulling the
> plug.
>
> But of course, if people choose to stay ignorant, and therefore will
> get repeatedly burned, that's their choice. I offer some groundrules
> (that actually work) for those interrested - nothing else. People are
> free to take my advice and free to ignore it and look for advice at
> one of the gazillion other sites available. I really don't care.
>
> The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense, especially
> concerning features like "outbound control" and "making you invisible
> on the internet", that many "firewall software companies" can get away
> with on their web-sites.
>
>> They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
>> because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
>> run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
>> internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
>> ...then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
>> changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
>> then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
>> configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
>> bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
>> (who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
>> URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
>> sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
>> status bar !
>
> As long as people don't understand that IE is a security threat by
> design there is'nt that much to do.
>
>> My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
>> applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
>> novice and/or stubborn users !
>
> I see marketing is doing a great job.
>
>> The reference on your web-site, to being
>> "pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
>> misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,
>
> Which a novice of course is'nt able to do properly anyway.
>
> And what is your opinion about all the nonsense warnings about
> "attacks" that your "personal firewall" has hindered? A good firewall
> is there to protect you. Not to brag about stopping "attacks" that
> mostly are'nt real attacks anyway. It should just protect you and shut
> up.
>
> The only time it seems to keep quiet is when malware is bypassing it.
> At the time you really need it to speak up, it won't.
>
>> and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
>> we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
>> for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
>> trying to get out, ...or in !
>> ...but, there you go - I've said my piece again :-)
>
> True malware does'nt care about your security suites.
>
> /B. Nice
>


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