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Norton & McAfee "crapware"

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Subject Author Date
Norton & McAfee "crapware" Philip K. 11-11-2005
Posted by Philip K. on November 11, 2005, 6:21 pm
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I can not understand all the angry posts in the Windows News Group to the
effect that Norton and McAfee antivirus programs are "crap-ware". Neither
can I understand why anyone would trust antivirus Freeware. Is some rich
guy (or company) giving his time and money to a staff of AV experts just for
me?
Yes, I have had my share of Norton upgrades "crapping" up the registry.
On the other hand, back in the summer of 98 Windows 98 wiped out my entire
computer. Office XP gave a lot trouble until a few SP's came out.
The big question is which AV program is the most reliable not which is
most convenient. The choice may be like getting an unpleasant flu shot
versus tasty herbal teas. Does anyone monitor these Freeware sites on a
daily basis to see how effective they are?



Posted by David H. Lipman on November 11, 2005, 7:10 pm
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| I can not understand all the angry posts in the Windows News Group to the
| effect that Norton and McAfee antivirus programs are "crap-ware". Neither
| can I understand why anyone would trust antivirus Freeware. Is some rich
| guy (or company) giving his time and money to a staff of AV experts just for
| me?
| Yes, I have had my share of Norton upgrades "crapping" up the registry.
| On the other hand, back in the summer of 98 Windows 98 wiped out my entire
| computer. Office XP gave a lot trouble until a few SP's came out.
| The big question is which AV program is the most reliable not which is
| most convenient. The choice may be like getting an unpleasant flu shot
| versus tasty herbal teas. Does anyone monitor these Freeware sites on a
| daily basis to see how effective they are?
|

There 'ya go ;-)

McAfee and Symantec provide two different versions of their software.
Retail and Corporate.

Norton branded products are retail. Symantec branded products are corporate.

In both cases with Norton AV and McAfee VirusScan it is the retail products that
the most
complaints are about. This has to do with the renewal process, licensing and
updating.
There is much less problems with their corporate version counterparts.

When it comes to McAfee VirusScan the corporate and retail versions are a world
apart.
For example; the retail VirusScan depends upon ActiveX compliant Browser. The
corporate
version is based upon a NT Service. With the corporate products there no
"account" tied to
updating the software and a registration process.

With those differences, the fact that unknowledgeable computer users use the
retail products
and the fact that home computers are the least stable, cause *many* of the
complaints about
the retail products.

On the Norton side, it tends to be bloated and use much computer resources. I
had a
notebook where NAV 2005 was so horrible that it was like running WinXP on 64MB
of RAM

When it comes to both McAfee and Norton, their user support sucks. This has
always been a
problem with Symantec. However, this became a real problem when Network
Associates (NAI)
acquired McAfee. NAI has been broken up and the Sniffer division has been sold
off and they
have re-trenched and going back to their core service and "McAfee" ways of doing
business as
they recognized that as NAI their service sucked.

In the corporate environment you will NOT find the anywhere near the same level
of
complaints. However, to the average user there is NO difference between
corporate and
retail products. It is just McAfee and Norton.

The fact is McAfee and Symantec AV software are the two most common AV software
on US
government computers. The US DoD via a DISA wide contract, has licenses for the
entire DoD
for; McAfee, Symantec and Trend Micro AV software. The US DoD via a DISA wide
contract,
has the license for Trend Micro anti spyware software.

Now there are free AV applications. Those companies that offer free AV software
and offer a
paid, corporate software, are usually limited. For example BitDefender. You
can buy the
full AV software or use the free "On Demand" scanner only version. With AVG you
can buy the
full implementation of their AV software or you can use their free offering. In
this case
the free version uses 80-90% of the functionality of the paid version.

As for monitoring effectiveness of AV. look for ICSA certification.
https://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/icsahome.php

ICSA AV pages..
https://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/main.php?pid=b31a$6140dfe3-4a851ebd$eaa4-72b



--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Posted by TeVan on November 11, 2005, 10:03 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Thanks for the link David (icsa). I can't find F-Prot listed in their =
testing. Do you know anything about F-Prot?
Given your knowledge, what would you use for a small network, 10 or less =
workstations and a server?

Thanks, TV



>=20
> | I can not understand all the angry posts in the Windows News Group =
to the
> | effect that Norton and McAfee antivirus programs are "crap-ware". =
Neither
> | can I understand why anyone would trust antivirus Freeware. Is =
some rich
> | guy (or company) giving his time and money to a staff of AV experts =
just for
> | me?
> | Yes, I have had my share of Norton upgrades "crapping" up the =
registry.
> | On the other hand, back in the summer of 98 Windows 98 wiped out my =
entire
> | computer. Office XP gave a lot trouble until a few SP's came out.
> | The big question is which AV program is the most reliable not =
which is
> | most convenient. The choice may be like getting an unpleasant flu =
shot
> | versus tasty herbal teas. Does anyone monitor these Freeware sites =
on a
> | daily basis to see how effective they are?
> |
>=20
> There 'ya go ;-)
>=20
> McAfee and Symantec provide two different versions of their software.
> Retail and Corporate.
>=20
> Norton branded products are retail. Symantec branded products are =
corporate.
>=20
> In both cases with Norton AV and McAfee VirusScan it is the retail =
products that the most
> complaints are about. This has to do with the renewal process, =
licensing and updating.
> There is much less problems with their corporate version counterparts.
>=20
> When it comes to McAfee VirusScan the corporate and retail versions =
are a world apart.
> For example; the retail VirusScan depends upon ActiveX compliant =
Browser. The corporate
> version is based upon a NT Service. With the corporate products there =
no "account" tied to
> updating the software and a registration process.
>=20
> With those differences, the fact that unknowledgeable computer users =
use the retail products
> and the fact that home computers are the least stable, cause *many* of =
the complaints about
> the retail products.
>=20
> On the Norton side, it tends to be bloated and use much computer =
resources. I had a
> notebook where NAV 2005 was so horrible that it was like running WinXP =
on 64MB of RAM
>=20
> When it comes to both McAfee and Norton, their user support sucks. =
This has always been a
> problem with Symantec. However, this became a real problem when =
Network Associates (NAI)
> acquired McAfee. NAI has been broken up and the Sniffer division has =
been sold off and they
> have re-trenched and going back to their core service and "McAfee" =
ways of doing business as
> they recognized that as NAI their service sucked.
>=20
> In the corporate environment you will NOT find the anywhere near the =
same level of
> complaints. However, to the average user there is NO difference =
between corporate and
> retail products. It is just McAfee and Norton.
>=20
> The fact is McAfee and Symantec AV software are the two most common AV =
software on US
> government computers. The US DoD via a DISA wide contract, has =
licenses for the entire DoD
> for; McAfee, Symantec and Trend Micro AV software. The US DoD via a =
DISA wide contract,
> has the license for Trend Micro anti spyware software.
>=20
> Now there are free AV applications. Those companies that offer free =
AV software and offer a
> paid, corporate software, are usually limited. For example =
BitDefender. You can buy the
> full AV software or use the free "On Demand" scanner only version. =
With AVG you can buy the
> full implementation of their AV software or you can use their free =
offering. In this case
> the free version uses 80-90% of the functionality of the paid version.
>=20
> As for monitoring effectiveness of AV. look for ICSA certification.
> https://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/icsahome.php
>=20
> ICSA AV pages..
> =
https://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/main.php?pid=3Db31a$6140dfe3-4a851ebd$eaa4-=
72b
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Dave
> http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
> http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
>=20
>

Posted by Steve Winograd [MVP] on November 12, 2005, 2:30 am
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
wrote:
>Thanks for the link David (icsa). I can't find F-Prot listed in their testing.
Do you know anything about F-Prot?
>Given your knowledge, what would you use for a small network, 10 or less
workstations and a server?
>
>Thanks, TV

I'm interested in what David has to say, too.

I've used F-Prot for Windows on my computers for years, and I
recommend it highly. In fact, I renewed my subscription yesterday.

In my experience, F-Prot is small, efficient, reliable, effective, and
trouble-free. It updates automatically and reliably, on a schedule
that you specify, as often as once per hour.

Two other benefits:

1. It's amazingly inexpensive: $29 for a 5-computer home license, or
$50 for a 10-computer commercial license.

2. It includes F-Prot for DOS, which I use to clean up infected Win9x
computers for my consulting clients.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Posted by Malke on November 12, 2005, 9:56 am
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Steve Winograd [MVP] wrote:

> wrote:
>>Thanks for the link David (icsa). I can't find F-Prot listed in their
>>testing. Do you know anything about F-Prot? Given your knowledge, what
>>would you use for a small network, 10 or less workstations and a
>>server?
>>
>>Thanks, TV
>
> I'm interested in what David has to say, too.
>
> I've used F-Prot for Windows on my computers for years, and I
> recommend it highly. In fact, I renewed my subscription yesterday.
>
> In my experience, F-Prot is small, efficient, reliable, effective, and
> trouble-free. It updates automatically and reliably, on a schedule
> that you specify, as often as once per hour.
>
> Two other benefits:
>
> 1. It's amazingly inexpensive: $29 for a 5-computer home license, or
> $50 for a 10-computer commercial license.
>
> 2. It includes F-Prot for DOS, which I use to clean up infected Win9x
> computers for my consulting clients.

Like Steve, I also use F-Prot on my Windows machines for and have done
so for years. I also put it on clients' machines. It doesn't have a
fancy interface like McAfee/Norton and you can't buy it in your
neighborhood computer store, but it is light on system resources, isn't
invasive, and does a really good job. There are new virus definitions
almost every day.

My experience with Norton is like Dave's - I think it sucks and the last
good version was NAV 2003 (which is now way outdated - don't put it on
a machine!). Also like Dave, I had a client's machine that was slow and
unresponsive. The box was new, had plenty of oomph and should have been
really quick. I uninstalled NAV (2005 or 2006, can't remember which
now) and the difference was striking. With F-Prot on the machine, there
was no reduction in speed.

So my recommendation to TV would be to try F-Prot. It is perfect for a
small office setup. They also have full-blown server versions.

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

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