Viruses  - Undergraduate Project

Viruses - Undergraduate Project

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Viruses - Undergraduate Project black0fire@gmail.com 05-24-2007
Posted by kurt wismer on May 26, 2007, 11:53 am
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black0fire@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm a computer science undergraduate student interested in doing my
> final year project regarding viruses. The project needs to be done in
> a team of 4 students and will go on for about an year, and it has to
> have both academic value and and end product to present. Though I
> really wish to do a project in the area of viruses, detection of
> viruses, mutaion engines, etc, I can't find or think of any suitable
> project ideas that would suit the criteria. So I wonder if anyone can
> present some ideas that would make a suitable project?

the obvious project idea would be some kind of malware detector (since
you're required to have an end product) but i'm not sure what you could
accomplish in a year would be all that interesting (at least not if you
went the known-malware scanner route - maybe if you looked at heuristics
or some other alternative technology)...

a less obvious but perhaps more interesting angle might be automated
malware analysis/classification...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"

Posted by Nick FitzGerald on May 26, 2007, 8:51 pm
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>> I'm a computer science undergraduate student interested in doing my
>> final year project regarding viruses. The project needs to be done in
>> a team of 4 students and will go on for about an year, and it has to
>> have both academic value and and end product to present. Though I
>> really wish to do a project in the area of viruses, detection of
>> viruses, mutaion engines, etc, I can't find or think of any suitable
>> project ideas that would suit the criteria. So I wonder if anyone can
>> present some ideas that would make a suitable project?
>
> the obvious project idea would be some kind of malware detector (since
> you're required to have an end product) but i'm not sure what you
> could accomplish in a year would be all that interesting (at least not
> if you went the known-malware scanner route - maybe if you looked at
> heuristics or some other alternative technology)...
>
> a less obvious but perhaps more interesting angle might be automated
> malware analysis/classification...

Agreed. Taking on even a most basic detector with four folk for
a year doesn't provide much scope to do anything much useful, but
taking one of Kurt's suggestions and looking at gluing such
functionality into ClamAV would save you the drudgery of having to
do much of the "run of the mill" stuff of developing a scanner (as
that code is already there, albeit in fairly rudimentary form much
of the time). This may also have the side-effect of actually
introducing something truly worthwhile into ClamAV...

Finally, for the OP, it seems that this is an area well outside the
gambit of your chosen institution and its instructors. If your
motivation for doing something "regarding viruses" is that you think
you want to work in the AV field, you should have considered doing
a summer internship at one of the AV companies to get more of a feel
for the kinds of things of most relevance to them. As that is
presumably no longer an option, rather than doing something
"regarding viruses" you may do better to find an area of CS that is
of significant interest to one of your profs but that can clearly be
tied back to something of relevance to AV, even if that use is not
to your prof's interest.


--
Nick FitzGerald



Posted by black0fire@gmail.com on May 27, 2007, 1:25 am
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Well, I've done a bit of research, and, for reasons mostly already
pointed out in this thread, I'm now thinking for going for something
else. Like Nick and others have pointed out, I don't really see
anything novel that can be done at the undergraduate level, and I've
got some ideas from regarding AI and Gaming, so I think I'll start
looking at that side. But thanks for the posts anyway guys, learned a
lot from them.

And VirusGuy, lighten up.

p.s. One question for Nick - you said "If you need to spend more than
a few minutes of your entire life pondering the theoretical, academic
and practical significance of "runs arbitrary code on the target
computer", then CS is clearly the wrong field for you... " - can you
elaborate on that? While I'm interested in Viruses, I think career
opportunities are kind of limited in that area - so its better kept as
a hobby?

wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I'm a computer science undergraduate student interested in doing my
> >> final year project regarding viruses. The project needs to be done in
> >> a team of 4 students and will go on for about an year, and it has to
> >> have both academic value and and end product to present. Though I
> >> really wish to do a project in the area of viruses, detection of
> >> viruses, mutaion engines, etc, I can't find or think of any suitable
> >> project ideas that would suit the criteria. So I wonder if anyone can
> >> present some ideas that would make a suitable project?
>
> > the obvious project idea would be some kind of malware detector (since
> > you're required to have an end product) but i'm not sure what you
> > could accomplish in a year would be all that interesting (at least not
> > if you went the known-malware scanner route - maybe if you looked at
> > heuristics or some other alternative technology)...
>
> > a less obvious but perhaps more interesting angle might be automated
> > malware analysis/classification...
>
> Agreed. Taking on even a most basic detector with four folk for
> a year doesn't provide much scope to do anything much useful, but
> taking one of Kurt's suggestions and looking at gluing such
> functionality into ClamAV would save you the drudgery of having to
> do much of the "run of the mill" stuff of developing a scanner (as
> that code is already there, albeit in fairly rudimentary form much
> of the time). This may also have the side-effect of actually
> introducing something truly worthwhile into ClamAV...
>
> Finally, for the OP, it seems that this is an area well outside the
> gambit of your chosen institution and its instructors. If your
> motivation for doing something "regarding viruses" is that you think
> you want to work in the AV field, you should have considered doing
> a summer internship at one of the AV companies to get more of a feel
> for the kinds of things of most relevance to them. As that is
> presumably no longer an option, rather than doing something
> "regarding viruses" you may do better to find an area of CS that is
> of significant interest to one of your profs but that can clearly be
> tied back to something of relevance to AV, even if that use is not
> to your prof's interest.
>
> --
> Nick FitzGerald



Posted by Virus Guy on May 27, 2007, 10:57 am
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"black0fire@gmail.com" wrote:

> And VirusGuy, lighten up.

Why don't you look into a project that involves detecting or
mitigating spam?

Lots of CS concepts there. From the SMTP handshake to greylisting to
content heuristics, there are lots of aspects of spam detection and
spam deflection that could be explored from an academically worthy
point of view.

> p.s. One question for Nick - you said "If you need to spend more
> than a few minutes of your entire life pondering the theoretical,
> academic and practical significance of "runs arbitrary code on the
> target computer", then CS is clearly the wrong field for you... "
>
> - can you elaborate on that?

I think what he means is that in practically all cases, the action or
mechanism of a virus is to "run arbitrary code on the target
computer", which is not a particularly advanced concept from a
theoretical or academic point of view.

On the other hand, the task of scanning a file system against
thousands of data templates (virus definitions, for example) can
involve advanced CS theories and concepts in order to optimize the
task. How to search a haystack systematically for a needle, and do it
as fast as possible and do it without false positive or false negative
results.

Posted by Nick FitzGerald on May 29, 2007, 12:23 am
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options

> p.s. One question for Nick - you said "If you need to spend more than
> a few minutes of your entire life pondering the theoretical, academic
> and practical significance of "runs arbitrary code on the target
> computer", then CS is clearly the wrong field for you... " - can you
> elaborate on that? While I'm interested in Viruses, I think career
> opportunities are kind of limited in that area - so its better kept as
> a hobby?

Mainly what "Virus Guy" said.

Viruses, and most malware in general, are not a particularly significant
_academic_ issue. As I said, Fred Cohen "wrote the book" on the theory
surrounding such, and as I suggested, it pretty much did the whole field
to death at the same time, as there has been very little of academic
interest, much less significance, since.

The pragmatics of implementing the technology needed to realize what the
theory tells us we should do to thwart viruses is also not terribly
interesting or pedagogically significant (from the perspective of the
idealized goals of academic tertiary education), and the pragmatics of
implementing the grossly flawed approach that has been almost
universally
adopted instead of what Cohen's work tells us is the only useful
approach
are only slightly more interesting, but again, I would argue, hardly the
basis of anything of tertiary academic significance.

Of course, if your objective is just that this should help you get a
job,
go to the best school you can afford that suckles heavily at the teat of
commercial expedience...


--
Nick FitzGerald



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