Newbie question on encryption keys

Newbie question on encryption keys

Secure Home | Search | About
 General Computer Security    Post an article   get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content add this group's latest topics to your Google content
Subject Author Date
Newbie question on encryption keys rohanm79 07-10-2007
Posted by Ertugrul Soeylemez on July 27, 2007, 8:01 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options

> > > Would you consider either of these serious passwords?
> > >
> > > 6:Q?-jiF6:Q?-jiF
> > > 6:Q?-jiFFij-?Q:6
> >
> > Not really. Probably they are impractical to break for a random
> > attacker, but it's still safer to use a completely random string
> > without repetition. Then it also doesn't have to be so long.
>
> I suppose this is the crux of my argument. On the order of
> practicality, it is best to have the shortest possible password
> (easiest to remember). You will need to have several (all eggs in one
> basket =3D no good). so the shorter the better.
>
> Unless the examples above, again rearranged so to be easily remembered
> are, or combined into 32 character passwords...
>
> Where is the point of best safety? One must assume a powerful
> adversary to find that point. Or do we ever really know?

You have to assume that every attacker already has some information
about you or your password. Probably he knows that you are using
repetition patterns in all or many of your passwords, which makes
attacking it much easier.

Think of your adversary standing behind you while you type in your
password. He doesn't see what password you're typing, but he certainly
hears the repetition patterns. If you're using SSH challenge-response
authentication, then he might even sniff the traffic to find that out,
because it reveals the pauses between key-presses.


Regards,
Ertugrul S=C3=B6ylemez.


--=20
Security is the one concept, which makes things in your life stay as
they are. Otto is a man, who is afraid of changes in his life; so
naturally he does not employ security.

Posted by rgesw on July 28, 2007, 9:22 am
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:01:26 +0200, Ertugrul Soeylemez


>You have to assume that every attacker already has some information
>about you or your password. Probably he knows that you are using
>repetition patterns in all or many of your passwords, which makes
>attacking it much easier.

Quality of user passwords allows bad things. For example, one (quite
typical) online site had average password entropy (strength) less than
15 bits. So, If users can and use that kind of lousy passwords,
attacker has good chances for brute-forcing files without needing much
of that extra information.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.crypt/msg/cfacf77ca70fd95b?&hl=en


36ec2f330ba175cdc1aacbdcb812036c
83240670a27ad2bdc2c5a1b36222d3941aaf4bca
a2da3cafba3cd23391ad90511b7c7b73fa219492
64799812b5ee98a4cc1c6484bf8f849e3fee9aa6553393b9d7873b7f8cac9b825aca648a365aaa5e7037f903d708e19df2198dfa82b2933b14ac7aa7072101eb


Posted by Ari on July 28, 2007, 1:59 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:22:44 +0300, rgesw wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:01:26 +0200, Ertugrul Soeylemez
>
>>You have to assume that every attacker already has some information
>>about you or your password. Probably he knows that you are using
>>repetition patterns in all or many of your passwords, which makes
>>attacking it much easier.
>
> Quality of user passwords allows bad things. For example, one (quite
> typical) online site had average password entropy (strength) less than
> 15 bits. So, If users can and use that kind of lousy passwords,
> attacker has good chances for brute-forcing files without needing much
> of that extra information.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.crypt/msg/cfacf77ca70fd95b?&hl=en
>
> 36ec2f330ba175cdc1aacbdcb812036c
> 83240670a27ad2bdc2c5a1b36222d3941aaf4bca
> a2da3cafba3cd23391ad90511b7c7b73fa219492
>
64799812b5ee98a4cc1c6484bf8f849e3fee9aa6553393b9d7873b7f8cac9b825aca648a365aaa5e7037f903d708e19df2198dfa82b2933b14ac7aa7072101eb

This "quality" is an elusive goal. I used the same password for two
email accts, one came back "weak". the other "strong" lol
--
"You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself"
Ken Thompson "Reflections on Trusting Trust"
http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/

Posted by Ari on July 28, 2007, 1:59 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:01:26 +0200, Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote:

>
>>> > Would you consider either of these serious passwords?
>>> >
>>> > 6:Q?-jiF6:Q?-jiF
>>> > 6:Q?-jiFFij-?Q:6
>>>
>>> Not really. Probably they are impractical to break for a random
>>> attacker, but it's still safer to use a completely random string
>>> without repetition. Then it also doesn't have to be so long.
>>
>> I suppose this is the crux of my argument. On the order of
>> practicality, it is best to have the shortest possible password
>> (easiest to remember). You will need to have several (all eggs in one
>> basket = no good). so the shorter the better.
>>
>> Unless the examples above, again rearranged so to be easily remembered
>> are, or combined into 32 character passwords...
>>
>> Where is the point of best safety? One must assume a powerful
>> adversary to find that point. Or do we ever really know?
>
> You have to assume that every attacker already has some information
> about you or your password. Probably he knows that you are using
> repetition patterns in all or many of your passwords, which makes
> attacking it much easier.
>
> Think of your adversary standing behind you while you type in your
> password. He doesn't see what password you're typing, but he certainly
> hears the repetition patterns. If you're using SSH challenge-response
> authentication, then he might even sniff the traffic to find that out,
> because it reveals the pauses between key-presses.
>
> Regards,
> Ertugrul Söylemez.

That's a good lesson, Er, thanks.
--
"You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself"
Ken Thompson "Reflections on Trusting Trust"
http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/

Similar ThreadsPosted
X.509 Digital Certificate Newbie Question April 12, 2005, 3:55 am
Question from a newbie -- protecting files July 20, 2005, 3:01 pm
A basic/newbie question on https. January 30, 2008, 8:55 pm
hiding encryption keys August 12, 2005, 3:32 pm
typical approach for encryption using keys? June 27, 2007, 6:20 am
RSA encryption - practical question March 14, 2006, 12:11 pm
Tunneling newbie? February 21, 2005, 8:52 pm
Newbie... need basics August 10, 2006, 8:01 pm
Spoofing fingerprint scanners - NEWBIE() May 1, 2006, 1:57 pm
Newbie: (unwanted) incoming traffice on static DSL line November 20, 2005, 8:17 pm

The site map in XML format XML site map

Contact Us | Privacy Policy