My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it.

My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it.

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My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it. gabe 07-11-2007
Posted by Leythos on July 11, 2007, 8:31 pm
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w_tom1@usa.net says...
> As Todd H accurately noted, plug-in UPS have even less protection
> numbers than in many $10 power strip protectors

As normal, you failed to read - and I clearly mentioned Quality devices
which you always run from. You keep thinking that I'm talking about a
Belkin UPS or some piece of crap unit - but when you were confronted
about a quality device, specific part number of APC, you diverted from
answering and never commented about it again.

You can't even provide the part number for your mythical device from
Lowes.....

--
Leythos - spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 to email me)

Learn more about PCBUTTS1 and his antics and ethic and his perversion
with Porn and Filth. Just take a look at some of the FILTH he's created
and put on his website: http://www.futurehardware.in/595578-2.htm all
exposed to children (the link I've include does not directly display his
filth). You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and
'exposed to kids'.

Posted by xpyttl on July 12, 2007, 8:59 am
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> For example, Leythos suggests a surge entered on a phone line?
> Why? Telco earths an effective 'whole house' type protector on every
> phone line - for free. How would a surge enter on phone line?

WOW - you really don't have a clue how lightning damages electronics, do
you?

Not only is nothing on the outside of the house going to matter, long lines
from your protective device are also a problem. No "Quality UPS" is going
to protect you if you have long lines from the UPS to the device.

Phone lines are especially vulnerable for three reasons; 1) they are
relatively high impedance, 2) the circuitry directly connected to the phone
lines tends to be more fragile than that connected to the mains and 3) phone
lines are likely to be longer than power lines.

That "whole house" protector will protect you from a strike miles away, but
the power transformers every so often on those poles will do the same for
the power lines. A nearby strike will derive almost no benefit.

..



Posted by w_tom on July 13, 2007, 1:20 am
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> WOW - you really don't have a clue how lightning damages electronics, do
> you?
>
> Not only is nothing on the outside of the house going to matter, long lines
> from your protective device are also a problem. No "Quality UPS" is going
> to protect you if you have long lines from the UPS to the device.

All nice rationalizations. Therefore phone service is routinely
down for four days as the telco replaces a switching computer
connected to overhead wires all over town. Even late 1950s Bell
research demonstrated that electronic switch can sufffer a hundred
surges during one thunderstom. So what did telcos do?

Every wire in every cable is connected to earth ground, either
directly or via a 'whole house' protector, where wire enters the
building. That earthing connection is short. The telco prefers
separation between protectors and computer to be up to 50 meters.
That longer separation enhances protection.

But xpyttl says telcos have it all wrong. Somehow he knows that
solutions standard in Central Offices all over the world don't work.
Clearly a $100 UPS without earting is a superior solution. Clearly we
"don't have a clue how lightning damages electronics". We have been
doing it all wrong for 100 years. Only xpyttl can save us from our
mistakes?

Best protector is as close to single point earth ground as is
possible. That distance between protector and electronics makes even
better protection when distance is many times longer than the earthing
connection. Superior protector are short to earth ground and distant
from electronics.

Meanwhile, we have been discussing 'secondary protection.
Homeowners are strongly adviced to also inspect their 'primary'
protection system:
http://www.tvtower.com/grounding_and_bonding.html


Posted by Leythos on July 13, 2007, 6:44 am
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@usa.net says...
> But xpyttl says telcos have it all wrong. Somehow he knows that
> solutions standard in Central Offices all over the world don't work.
> Clearly a $100 UPS without earting is a superior solution. Clearly we
> "don't have a clue how lightning damages electronics". We have been
> doing it all wrong for 100 years. Only xpyttl can save us from our
> mistakes?

And there you go again w_tom, making crap up. A Quality UPS is going to
always require a good ground connection, in fact, most of them will
alarm if there is no ground.

So, keep ranting and ignoring facts, I don't see what you gain by it.
You still have not presented the part number for your Mythical $50 whole
house protector that anyone can buy at Lowes, still not explained why
devices protected by a Quality UPS were protected while those that were
not were damaged.... Why not one device in my home connected to a UPS
has ever been damaged while every house around me has had some form of
device damaged at least once in the last 20 years....

--
Leythos - spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 to email me)

Learn more about PCBUTTS1 and his antics and ethic and his perversion
with Porn and Filth. Just take a look at some of the FILTH he's created
and put on his website: http://www.futurehardware.in/595578-2.htm all
exposed to children (the link I've include does not directly display his
filth). You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and
'exposed to kids'.

Posted by bud-- on July 12, 2007, 10:22 am
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w_tom wrote:


For reliable information on surges and surge protection try:
http://omegaps.com/Lightning%20Guide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
- the title is "How to protect your house and its contents from
lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to
AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005
(the IEEE is the dominant organization of electrical and electronic
engineers in the US).
And:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
- this is the "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to
protect the appliances in your home" published by the US National
Institute of Standards and Technology in 2001

The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The
NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.


>
> For example, Leythos suggests a surge entered on a phone line?
> Why? Telco earths an effective 'whole house' type protector on every
> phone line - for free. How would a surge enter on phone line? First
> lightning must bypass AC electric lines to get to phone line. Then it
> must ignore earthing from a telco provided protector. Finally, to
> damage a computer, first, it forms a conducting circuit to earth.
> Incoming on telephone line, through modem, through motherboard, then
> out to earth ground via table top, AC electric wire, etc. Right out
> of primary school science - first a complete circuit must exist before
> electricity (a surge) can flow.

According to NIST guide, US insurance information indicates equipment
most frequently damaged by lightning is
computers with a modem connection
TVs, VCRs and similar equipment (presumably with cable TV
connections).
All can be damaged by high voltages between power and signal wires.

An example of how a surge can enter on a signal wire is illustrated in
the IEEE guide starting pdf page 40. A surge comes in on a CATV service.
The CATV entry block is not connected with a short ground wire to the
power service earthing wire at the power service. Surge current on the
long ground wire creates a high voltage between power and CATV wires
causing damage. The same can happen with the phone entry. Entry
protection blocks should be adjacent to the power service with short
interconnect wires. (If not the IEEE guide says "the only effective way
of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport protector.")

>
> An effective protector is simply a connecting device to earth
> ground. It does not stop or absorb what three miles of sky could not
> - as Leythos claims. An effective 'whole house' protector earths
> direct strikes to computers as Ben Franklin's lightning rod earthed
> direct strikes to church steeples. Computers are damaged by direct
> lightning strikes. If that surge current is not earthed before
> entering the building, then it will find destructive paths through
> household appliances.
>
> Whether a lightning rod or protector - it is only a connecting
> device to earth ground. Protection is earth ground. No earth ground
> (ie. that UPS) means no effective protection. Those who never learned
> how electricity works will deny all this.

The 6 EEs that wrote the IEEE and NIST guides deny all this, as applied
to plug-in suppressors. And no one says suppressors "stop" or "absorb".

w_ has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection
must use earthing. Thus in his view plug-in suppressors (which are not
well earthed) can not possibly work. The IEEE guide explains plug-in
suppressors work by CLAMPING the voltage on all wires (signal and power)
to the common ground at the suppressor. Plug-in suppressors do not work
primarily by earthing. The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere.

Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same
plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through the
suppressor. External connections, like phone, also need to go through
the suppressor. Connecting all wiring through the suppressor prevents
damaging voltages between power and signal wires. These multiport
suppressors are described in the IEEE guide. [Leythos was correct that
the printer needed to connect to the UPS. I read his post as connecting
the printer to the UPS surge protected outlet, not the UPS outlet.]

Plug-in suppressor ratings range from junk to very high. UPSs can have
the same protection as plug-in suppressors, but suppression ratings are
probably not as high as a good plug-in suppressor. Any suppressor in the
US should be listed under UL1449.

--
bud--



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