My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it.

My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it.
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Subject Author Date
My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it. gabe 07-11-2007
Posted by Leythos on July 11, 2007, 2:40 pm
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>
> > gabedog@gmail.com says...
> > > My PC was hit with lightning and now Microcenter is looking at it. I
> > > replaced the Video card, but that's not it. It's probably the hard
> > > drive or the motherboard.
> >
> > Your PC was not directly hit by Lightning, at least I'm assuming that
> > much, but was hit by a surge on either the AC line or a Modem line.
> >
> > Typically this does not fry the Drives or CPU or RAM, but it will fry
> > the motherboard and any card/device the surge rode in on.
> >
> > A Quality UPS would have prevented this.
>
> I'm afraid this is a naive statement for several reasons.
>
> For one, many UPS's actually have less voltage surge energy handling
> than quality surge suppressors (these are rated in Joules, APC specs
> these for comparison). Compare a Backups Pro 650's surge rating to,
> say, a Surgearrest Pro strip.
>
> Second, when it comes to lightning, no little bits of MOV are going to
> defeat the energy in a close lightning strikes voltage signature
> induced on the lines. Without knowing whwere the OP lives, how their
> power is fed, the geography of the area, where the strike was, saying
> unqualified "a quality ups would have prevented this" is foolish.
>
> Finally it's not terribly uncommon to take the hit via an attached
> modem telephone cable, or a network cable coupled to a cable modem or
> DSL line. Electric lines are typically far more succeptible because
> in areas of overhead lines, they're far more exposed and uninsulated
> on the distribution end, but few people implement any MOV protection
> at all on their phone lines, co-ax, or network cables.

And if you buy a Quality UPS device they will have Network and Phone
jacks in them to provide protection for those sources.

In the 30 years I've been building networks and hardware, even with just
MOV's for protection, I've never had a device damaged by a surge, and
certainly none were damaged on a QUALITY UPS while other devices on the
same AC Line that were not protected were damaged.

So, again, and you can count on w_tom trying to dismiss all of this, a
Quality UPS would probably have saved his entire system.

--
Leythos - spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 to email me)

Learn more about PCBUTTS1 and his antics and ethic and his perversion
with Porn and Filth. Just take a look at some of the FILTH he's created
and put on his website: http://www.webservertalk.com/message1907860.html
3rd link shows what he's exposed to children (the link I've include does
not directly display his filth). You can find the same information by
googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and 'exposed to kids'.

Posted by Ari on July 11, 2007, 3:56 pm
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On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:40:17 -0400, Leythos wrote:

> And if you buy a Quality UPS device they will have Network and Phone
> jacks in them to provide protection for those sources.

And often won't allow those lines to work properly, especially ADSL.

Posted by Todd H. on July 11, 2007, 4:09 pm
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> In the 30 years I've been building networks and hardware, even with
> just MOV's for protection, I've never had a device damaged by a
> surge, and certainly none were damaged on a QUALITY UPS while other
> devices on the same AC Line that were not protected were damaged.
>
> So, again, and you can count on w_tom trying to dismiss all of this, a
> Quality UPS would probably have saved his entire system.

"Would probably" I can agree with, adding "provided the strike wasn't
too direct."

But that's not what you originally said, but folks do make
mistakes--even the mighty Leythos.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Posted by Leythos on July 11, 2007, 5:01 pm
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>
> > In the 30 years I've been building networks and hardware, even with
> > just MOV's for protection, I've never had a device damaged by a
> > surge, and certainly none were damaged on a QUALITY UPS while other
> > devices on the same AC Line that were not protected were damaged.
> >
> > So, again, and you can count on w_tom trying to dismiss all of this, a
> > Quality UPS would probably have saved his entire system.
>
> "Would probably" I can agree with, adding "provided the strike wasn't
> too direct."
>
> But that's not what you originally said, but folks do make
> mistakes--even the mighty Leythos.

Then you appear to have made the mistake of not reading my reply, here
is the part you missed:

"Your PC was not directly hit by Lightning, at least I'm assuming that
much, but was hit by a surge on either the AC line or a Modem line."

So, again, a Quality UPS device on a proper AC outlet would have
protected his computer - as all connections would have been filtered,
and the instructions in most quality UPS's identify those connections.

--
Leythos - spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 to email me)

Learn more about PCBUTTS1 and his antics and ethic and his perversion
with Porn and Filth. Just take a look at some of the FILTH he's created
and put on his website: http://www.futurehardware.in/595578-2.htm all
exposed to children (the link I've include does not directly display his
filth). You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and
'exposed to kids'.

Posted by w_tom on July 11, 2007, 8:04 pm
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What Leythos calls 'building' is really nothing more than 'rack and
stack'. His knowledge of electronics is almost trivial. His
experience is based upon swapping parts until something works. That
will be demonstrated here and in other posts.

For example, Leythos suggests a surge entered on a phone line?
Why? Telco earths an effective 'whole house' type protector on every
phone line - for free. How would a surge enter on phone line? First
lightning must bypass AC electric lines to get to phone line. Then it
must ignore earthing from a telco provided protector. Finally, to
damage a computer, first, it forms a conducting circuit to earth.
Incoming on telephone line, through modem, through motherboard, then
out to earth ground via table top, AC electric wire, etc. Right out
of primary school science - first a complete circuit must exist before
electricity (a surge) can flow.

Most surges on phone line are leaving appliance to earth ground via
that telephone line protector. Phone lines are an outgoing path to
earth ground. Surges that most often harm modems are incoming on AC
electric. No 'whole house' protector on AC electric to earth a surge
means incoming on AC electric from highest wires on utility poles.
Electricity continues through computer and modem to earth ground via
phone line protector. Now we have a complete circuit. Now something
in that direct strike circuit path may be harmed.

Why is this relevant to gabe's post? Why would a surge harm his
disk drive and data? Do surges hit that drive like a wave on the
beach? Not according to primary school science. To have electricity,
a surge must have both an incoming and outgoing path. Notice a surge
also had incoming paths to keyboard, memory, CPU, etc. Why were those
items also not damaged? No outgoing path - no damage - just like disk
drive.

Leythos also posts this:
> Anytime a repair shop has your PC they will typically format the
> drive and reinstall the OS since that eliminates most of the OS
> related problems.

Lightning did not destroy or change the OS. Responsible shops would
not automatically reload Windows. But Leythos would. Leythos is a
card swapper. He will keep changing things until something works -
shotgunning. He does not first learn 'why' due to insufficient
electronics knowledge. Leythos would automatically reload Windows.
Leythos also has no idea how or why surges do damage.

As Todd H accurately noted, plug-in UPS have even less protection
numbers than in many $10 power strip protectors. But Leythos somehow
magically knows that same but weaker circuit inside a UPS is
superior. Don't take Todd's or my word for it. Look at the UPS
numbers. Not from color glossies. Refer to the full page of
numerical specifications. How many joules? Notice no earth ground
wire and no mention of earthing? Why then install minimally
sufficient joules? They don't claim to protect from a type of surge
that typically destroys electronics - a direct lightning strike. So
they also undersize the joules. View the numbers.

Installed were only enough joules so that Leythos can assume
protection must exist. They know shotgunners such as Leythos will
promote their product blindly - not bother to first learn how
electronics work. Leythos even ignored the numbers.

An effective protector is simply a connecting device to earth
ground. It does not stop or absorb what three miles of sky could not
- as Leythos claims. An effective 'whole house' protector earths
direct strikes to computers as Ben Franklin's lightning rod earthed
direct strikes to church steeples. Computers are damaged by direct
lightning strikes. If that surge current is not earthed before
entering the building, then it will find destructive paths through
household appliances. It that surge current is not earthed before
striking a church steeple, damage will result, for same reasons.

Whether a lightning rod or protector - it is only a connecting
device to earth ground. Protection is earth ground. No earth ground
(ie. that UPS) means no effective protection. Those who never learned
how electricity works will deny all this.

Unfortunately Leythos is correct. Many certified computer techs will
automatically reload Windows. One need not even know how electricity
works to pass the A+ Certification tests - to repair computers as
Leythos does.

Your disk data should be intact if a direct lightning strike did not
use the drive as a path to earth. Direct strikes are circuits from a
cloud to earth ground. Future protection means a human must install
an earthing path so that lightning need not be earthed via the
computer.

What do 'quality' UPS devices do for surge protection? Those
'building wide' UPSes are located adjacent to and have that short
connection to earth; therefore can provide surge protection. Those
'quality' UPSes are not what Leythos is promoting.

> And if you buy a Quality UPS device they will have Network and Phone
> jacks in them to provide protection for those sources.
>
> In the 30 years I've been building networks and hardware, even with just
> MOV's for protection, I've never had a device damaged by a surge, and
> certainly none were damaged on a QUALITY UPS while other devices on the
> same AC Line that were not protected were damaged.
>
> So, again, and you can count on w_tom trying to dismiss all of this, a
> Quality UPS would probably have saved his entire system.

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