Is known IP-number filtering pretty much all that is needed for website security/vulnerability?

Is known IP-number filtering pretty much all that is needed for website security/vulnerability?

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Is known IP-number filtering pretty much all that is needed for website security/vulnerability? ship 05-17-2006
Posted by ship on May 17, 2006, 3:55 pm
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Hi

I want to get some views on security/vulnerability to hacking.

Our ISP has just put our website onto a new dedicated webserver for us.
It is running Apache (latest) on Linux. And MySQL.
We have got the thing protected by a router that has IP filtering on
it.

Basically we are only allowing point to point traffic - that is traffic

a tiny range of precisely specified IP numbers to have FTP access.

This of course means that everyone who runs the site needs to
have a dedicated IP number.

This may sound naive but do you think the above will be enough
to stop hackers from getting in?!

(e.g.
- should we buy a separate firewall box or is it enough to
just rely on the router's filtering?

- What other vulnerabilities should we be tackling.

- Is there any way of spoofing IP numbers?



Ship
Shiperton Henethe
(webmaster)


Posted by Walter Roberson on May 17, 2006, 4:40 pm
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>Our ISP has just put our website onto a new dedicated webserver for us.
>It is running Apache (latest) on Linux. And MySQL.
>We have got the thing protected by a router that has IP filtering on
>it.

>Basically we are only allowing point to point traffic - that is traffic
>a tiny range of precisely specified IP numbers to have FTP access.

>This of course means that everyone who runs the site needs to
>have a dedicated IP number.

>This may sound naive but do you think the above will be enough
>to stop hackers from getting in?!

No. Anyone who cracks the web server could potentially gain full
access -- and how are you securing the computers that would be allowed
FTP access?

>- Is there any way of spoofing IP numbers?

Yes. The difficulty of doing so depends upon the operating system.
Any reasonably recent Linux would likely make it quite difficult
to do. Probably easier to take over one of the control systems and use
those to attack the server.


If your site gets popular, then eventually it will likely be
subject to a DoS (Denial of Service) attack. Routers aren't usually
very good at stopping those.


Is there a good reason to use ftp specifically? sftp or scp would
be more secure.

Posted by Todd H. on May 17, 2006, 4:48 pm
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> Hi
>
> I want to get some views on security/vulnerability to hacking.

Hee hee. A post that teeters on perpetuating "all i need is a
firewall to be sucure" cross posted to 4 newsgroup 2 of which are
security....

What could possibly go wrong?

Sorry, Ship... I'll try to be kind and I hope others will take an
instructional approach as well.


> Our ISP has just put our website onto a new dedicated webserver for us.
> It is running Apache (latest) on Linux. And MySQL.

First question--is it patched? Vulnerabilities to worry about from
your description so far include:

MySQL: http://secunia.com/search/?search=mysql

Apache: http://secunia.com/search/?search=apache&w=0

Linux: http://secunia.com/search/?search=linux&w=0


> We have got the thing protected by a router that has IP filtering on
> it.

Which is nice... until one of the allowed IP's gets owned. How may
IP's are allowed, and how many computers with "average users" at the
helm might be coming from them?

> Basically we are only allowing point to point traffic - that is
> traffic a tiny range of precisely specified IP numbers to have FTP
> access.

More questions: Is your ftp server patched?
http://secunia.com/search/?search=ftp&w=0

Is there a specific reason you need FTP (a clear text protocol
vulnerable to sniffing of passwords and usernames) vs scp or sftp
which are encrypted?

> This of course means that everyone who runs the site needs to have a
> dedicated IP number.
>
> This may sound naive but do you think the above will be enough
> to stop hackers from getting in?!

Unfortunately the answer is not "No," it's "Hell no!" :-\

> (e.g.
> - should we buy a separate firewall box or is it enough to
> just rely on the router's filtering?

Depends entirely on how the router is configured, whether it's
software is up to date, and if it's maintained by someone who knows
what they're doing.

> - What other vulnerabilities should we be tackling.
>
> - Is there any way of spoofing IP numbers?

Spoofing IP's is trivial. However, the wrinkle is that with TCP
protocols at least (which includes all the protocols you've mentioned
thus far--FTP, HTTP), the replies to spoofed TCP packets will go to
the IP address that was spoofed, which makes it hard to do too too
much.

However, you need to be aware of the metric that something more than
50% of data theft issues or malicious activity originates from inside
the the circle of trust, either intentionally or unintentionally. So
those "trusted" IP's can't be so trusted. You'd have to know an awful
lot about those folks' operations, processes and procedures to get a
good comfort level to be reasonably sure that the "trusted" IP boxes
(or ones behind them) haven't been owned by something as simple as
someone surfing to a myspace site with a vulnerable web browser on
their machine, attacker takes over that box, it's in your trusted IP
range, and suddenly your site is in the crosshairs with all its warts
exposed.

A good firewall only gives you crunchy on the outside, soft and chewy
on the inside security, and leaves all the other venues of attack wide
wide open.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Posted by William Tasso on May 17, 2006, 5:03 pm
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Fleeing from the madness of the http://groups.google.com jungle
news:alt.www.webmaster,comp.security.firewalls,alt.apache.configuration,comp.security.misc
and said:


> ...
> - What other vulnerabilities should we be tackling.

As others have suggested - you shouldn't really be using FTP at all on
Linux.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp

Posted by Matt Probert on May 18, 2006, 7:37 am
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>This may sound naive but do you think the above will be enough
>to stop hackers from getting in?!

I strongly advise you contact some hackers or former hackers, and talk
to them.

There are a number of good books available, including "Hacker's
Challenge" published by Osborne, and "Hack Attacks Revealed" published
by Wiley.

I am always reminded of the story of a company who spent a fortune on
firewalls and the like, only to be infiltrated when a hacker walked
into their premises via the back-door pretending to be a new
contractor and was given access to a terminal and login....

Matt


--
Veritas Vincti
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

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