Locked Out by Vendor

Locked Out by Vendor

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Subject Author Date
Locked Out by Vendor scantrell113 05-02-2008
Posted by Crash Gordon on May 8, 2008, 10:41 am
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personally, the whole thing aint worth the few bucks it would cost to
replace the OLD OLD 4112 board and a keypad or two with something newer.



--
**Crash Gordon**







> On May 7, 7:03?am, scantrell...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > How do you know it's locked out? Did the tech try to enter programming
>> > with
>> > a 5200 programmer or just by downloading it?
>>
>> The new monitoring company dialed into the system however when they
>> entered the default RAM Passcode, it did not match. ?I then asked
>> (nicely) the existing monitoring company, Advent Security, to reset
>> it. Advent told me that they would not release the code that they
>> changed it to. ?When asked to reset it, that is when I got the "we own
>> the communicator" line.-
>
> I don't know how much trouble you want to go to to get the use of
> your system but you might want to try this.
>
> Send them a letter telling them that since they will not allow you
> access to the alarm system that you paid for and that is your
> property, that you are going to take them to small claims court to
> obtain the cost of the installation of a new panel. You can tell them
> that all you want is access to YOUR alarm system. Since the
> communicator is part of the alarm panel it cannot be removed but they
> are welcome to come and remove only that part of the programing that
> allows the communicator to report to central station, as long as they
> leave you with an operating system and access to the dealer programing
> for the next alarm company. Be very clear on what you require them to
> do so that they don't come to your home and make the system inoperable
> and inaccessable. Sent Certified, return recept letter.
>
> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet in this thread, but
> typically, nowdays, since communicators are an integeral part of a
> control panels printed circuit board, the contract will say that the
> communication
> "software" is the property of the alarm company, not the communicator.
> So you should confirm with them that they really said "communicator"
> and not "communication software".
>
>
> If they say "communicator" and you wanted to be a smart-ass about it,
> you could tell them that they are welcome to come and take the
> communicator, as long as they leave you with an equivalent working
> alarm system that you paid for originally.
>
> Whether you follow through on the threat or not is up to you. In my
> state, if called to small claims court, a corporation is required to
> be represented by an attorney. So even if you lose, they've still got
> to pay him. If it's the same in your state then they may not want to
> risk having to pay his fee and will decide to default your system
> instead. If they don't respond, then it's your call.



Posted by Just Looking on May 5, 2008, 4:18 pm
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>Two questions, is this common practice and is there a hardware reset on a
Radionics 4112?

The common practice part of the question would have more to do with the
where you live part of the question. In some places that is not legal to do.
There is no separate slave dialer inside the D4112. It is a control
communicator combination.
The D4112 is an old panel. It is not supported by the manufacturer anymore
(Bosch). It may be cheaper (and better) to just buy a new panel and keypad
combo and install it instead. There is a data lock feature on the D4112. If
the D4112 panel has not been data locked then you should be able to get a
D5100 or D5200 to program it locally or remotely program the panel with RAM
II.
http://www.boschsecurity.us/pdf/EN/7405365E_4112.PDF



After many many years of sticking with the monitoring service offered
by my initial home alarm installer, due to constant compounding price
increases I decided to get service from another company. I come to
find that my trusted provider has locked the new monitoring company
out the controller. When they sold me the system, they sat at my
kitchen table and told me that I was under no obligation to continue
with their service and that I owned the equipment. What they did not
disclose was on small line in a wordy and lengthy contract that
stipulates that they own the communicator. We’ve probably all signed
documents relying on anticipated fair business practices without
parsing words (‘I did not have sexual relations with that woman’).
Two questions, is this common practice and is there a hardware reset
on a Radionics 4112?



Posted by Frank Olson on May 7, 2008, 12:41 pm
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scantrell113@gmail.com wrote:
> After many many years of sticking with the monitoring service offered
> by my initial home alarm installer, due to constant compounding price
> increases I decided to get service from another company. I come to
> find that my trusted provider has locked the new monitoring company
> out the controller. When they sold me the system, they sat at my
> kitchen table and told me that I was under no obligation to continue
> with their service and that I owned the equipment.

That wasn't "the company" or the "installer". That was a "salesman".
You more than likely do "own" the equipment, though. If the
communicator is part of the common control unit, then the only thing
they "own" is the proprietary information the system uses to communicate
with the company's central station. There has been numerous legal
precedents that have determined this. If they continue to "insist" on
spewing the "ownership" line, then I would suggest that you:

1. cancel your contract properly (provide them with the correct notice),
2. have the company that wants to take over install their own
communicator and connect it to your existing system. This will allow
you to retain all the functionality of the original system.

If you really want to be a royal "pain" to the original company, change
your home phone number and have your phone company block calls
originating from it. That way the original alarm company's communicator
will still transmit signals to their central and there's nothing they
can do about it unless they come out and physically disconnect your
system (which you won't allow them to do because they're being "royal
pains" themselves). They won't be obligated to respond to any emergency
signals though, because you've canceled your contract.

> What they did not
> disclose was on small line in a wordy and lengthy contract that
> stipulates that they own the communicator. We’ve probably all signed
> documents relying on anticipated fair business practices without
> parsing words (‘I did not have sexual relations with that woman’).
> Two questions, is this common practice and is there a hardware reset
> on a Radionics 4112?

You mean you sign a contract without reading and understanding all the
terms?? That's plain "dumb".

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