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Subject Author Date
SSL info UKuser 01-02-2007
---> Re: SSL info Sebastian Gotts...01-02-2007
|--> Re: SSL info Anne & Lynn Whe...01-02-2007
---> Re: SSL info Ertugrul Soeyle...01-02-2007
  ---> Re: SSL info Sebastian Gotts...01-02-2007
  | `--> Re: SSL info Ertugrul Soeyle...01-05-2007
  |--> Re: SSL info Anne & Lynn Whe...01-03-2007
  `--> Re: SSL info Anne & Lynn Whe...01-03-2007
Posted by UKuser on January 2, 2007, 11:42 am
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Hi Folks,

I'm going to be working with some SSL pages (php) and wondered if there
were any good design/development sites for security tips etc so I miss
out on making the "obvious" blunders - whatever they may be.

I've found: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/04/20/410240.aspx
which is very good and lists two possible problems. Here then is the
newbie question.

If a form is hosted on a HTTP (non secure) site and points to a HTTPS
in the action tag, does this mean that the page has already made the
SSL connection/handshake? Does the browser recognise the potential for
a HTTPS connection and therefore do the same as if it was a full SSL
page?

Secondly, why is mixed content so bad (any sites would be great)? I
appreciate various elements could be secure/unsecure but how would that
pose a risk?

Thanks

UkUsEr


Posted by Sebastian Gottschalk on January 2, 2007, 1:09 pm
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UKuser wrote:

> I'm going to be working with some SSL pages (php) and wondered if there
> were any good design/development sites for security tips etc so I miss
> out on making the "obvious" blunders - whatever they may be.

The obvious blunders are incompetent Root-CA s. You can easily recognize
them: If they're claiming to be Root-CA, then they're incompetent.

> I've found: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/04/20/410240.aspx
> which is very good and lists two possible problems. Here then is the
> newbie question.
>
> If a form is hosted on a HTTP (non secure) site and points to a HTTPS
> in the action tag, does this mean that the page has already made the
> SSL connection/handshake?

No.

> Does the browser recognise the potential for
> a HTTPS connection and therefore do the same as if it was a full SSL
> page?

Yes. However, this won't help if the attacker can modified the unsecure
form to transmit the content to somewhere else.

> Secondly, why is mixed content so bad (any sites would be great)? I
> appreciate various elements could be secure/unsecure but how would that
> pose a risk?

Simple: The nonsecure content can be modified by an attacker, and such a
modified content can also modify/overwrite/extend the secure content.

Trivial example: Overwrite an nonsecure CSS stylesheet with "body {
display:none; visible: no; content-before:<!-- put your phishing website
here -->}"

Posted by UKuser on January 3, 2007, 4:19 am
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Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for the information. You're obviously assuming that an attacker
can get to the unsecured content and modify it. What would stop an
attacker accessing files on a secure area as well? If SSL just encrypts
the communication between the webserver and client, how are the SSL
files any more secure?

Thanks

A

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

> UKuser wrote:
>
> > I'm going to be working with some SSL pages (php) and wondered if there
> > were any good design/development sites for security tips etc so I miss
> > out on making the "obvious" blunders - whatever they may be.
>
> The obvious blunders are incompetent Root-CA s. You can easily recognize
> them: If they're claiming to be Root-CA, then they're incompetent.
>
> > I've found: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/04/20/410240.aspx
> > which is very good and lists two possible problems. Here then is the
> > newbie question.
> >
> > If a form is hosted on a HTTP (non secure) site and points to a HTTPS
> > in the action tag, does this mean that the page has already made the
> > SSL connection/handshake?
>
> No.
>
> > Does the browser recognise the potential for
> > a HTTPS connection and therefore do the same as if it was a full SSL
> > page?
>
> Yes. However, this won't help if the attacker can modified the unsecure
> form to transmit the content to somewhere else.
>
> > Secondly, why is mixed content so bad (any sites would be great)? I
> > appreciate various elements could be secure/unsecure but how would that
> > pose a risk?
>
> Simple: The nonsecure content can be modified by an attacker, and such a
> modified content can also modify/overwrite/extend the secure content.
>
> Trivial example: Overwrite an nonsecure CSS stylesheet with "body {
> display:none; visible: no; content-before:<!-- put your phishing website
> here -->}"


Posted by UKuser on January 3, 2007, 6:32 am
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Just want to thank everyone for their contributions. I thought
(incorrectly) this would appear under Sebastians reply.

A

UKuser wrote:

> Hi Sebastian,
>
> Thanks for the information. You're obviously assuming that an attacker
> can get to the unsecured content and modify it. What would stop an
> attacker accessing files on a secure area as well? If SSL just encrypts
> the communication between the webserver and client, how are the SSL
> files any more secure?
>
> Thanks
>
> A
>
> Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
>
> > UKuser wrote:
> >
> > > I'm going to be working with some SSL pages (php) and wondered if there
> > > were any good design/development sites for security tips etc so I miss
> > > out on making the "obvious" blunders - whatever they may be.
> >
> > The obvious blunders are incompetent Root-CA s. You can easily recognize
> > them: If they're claiming to be Root-CA, then they're incompetent.
> >
> > > I've found: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/04/20/410240.aspx
> > > which is very good and lists two possible problems. Here then is the
> > > newbie question.
> > >
> > > If a form is hosted on a HTTP (non secure) site and points to a HTTPS
> > > in the action tag, does this mean that the page has already made the
> > > SSL connection/handshake?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > > Does the browser recognise the potential for
> > > a HTTPS connection and therefore do the same as if it was a full SSL
> > > page?
> >
> > Yes. However, this won't help if the attacker can modified the unsecure
> > form to transmit the content to somewhere else.
> >
> > > Secondly, why is mixed content so bad (any sites would be great)? I
> > > appreciate various elements could be secure/unsecure but how would that
> > > pose a risk?
> >
> > Simple: The nonsecure content can be modified by an attacker, and such a
> > modified content can also modify/overwrite/extend the secure content.
> >
> > Trivial example: Overwrite an nonsecure CSS stylesheet with "body {
> > display:none; visible: no; content-before:<!-- put your phishing website
> > here -->}"


Posted by Sebastian Gottschalk on January 3, 2007, 8:54 am
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UKuser wrote:

> You're obviously assuming that an attacker can get to the unsecured content
> and modify it.

That's one of the scenarios SSL is supposed to protect against.

> What would stop an attacker accessing files on a secure area as well?

User authentication? Can be done via SSL, but HTTP Digest Authentication
does this as well. Plaintext passwords are also quite common, but a bad
idea.

> If SSL just encrypts the communication between the webserver and client,
> how are the SSL files any more secure?

Because "secure" on its own doesn't make any sense, you have to ask "secure
against which attack vector".

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